Why Is Shaming Men OK, but Shaming Women isn’t?

whitenight shamer

I’m not sure when men decided that 30 was the new 15. When men thought it was better to remain independent than making a commitment to another. When men we’re courageous in business and battle but afraid to be fathers. I’m not sure when video games and “guy night” became more important than tee-ball and date night. When 4 year relationships weren’t long enough for a proposal. When staying out became cooler than showing up. I’m not sure when men became boys.

Our culture has a boy problem. In Italy, they call it Peter Pan Syndrome. I call it immaturity and selfishness. Men so focused on their dreams, their visions, and their desires they find themselves wealthy, known, and alone.

The adult world doesn’t need more boys. We need men who will grow up, know up, and show up. Who will fight for romance and commit quickly and stay indefinitely. To turn their hearts toward children and work to raise them well. To be friends who grow friends. Not just by compliments, but accountability and conviction. We need more men.

We need more men of integrity and character. Those who will hold a moral code and not compromise it. Those who love women, treat them as they would their own daughters and lead them when everything doesn’t make sense… They would lead. We need more men.

Today, I turn 31. I’m a man. And I’m proud of that. Please share as a birthday gift smile emoticon#EveryPostALesson #DaleyWisdom

So I saw this on my facebook a day or two ago, and saw some female friends reposting in agreement.  There’s nothing wrong with wanting marriage and family, most women want this (including myself, obviously), but it’s interesting that we don’t see how ugly this is in light of the legal ramifications for men who do actually want marriage.

It also is ugly in the way this man is writing it to other men attempting to shame them.  He is “the only man in the room.”  He feels like he’s better than these other “boys” because he’s taken the risk of marriage.  It’s just kind of ugly, honestly, and I doubt it’s well-received by most men in the generation Y age-range he’s trying to shame.

 

So… I took the liberty of rewriting it and posting it on my facebook to try to show how it looks when it’s written with the same tone and same self-righteous, but towards women.  It looks pretty bad.  It’s ugly.

So if it’s ugly and yucky for women to read… what makes us think that it’s ok and that we should praise this guy for doing the same thing to men?

Rewritten for women:

“I’m not sure when women decided that 30 was the new 15. When women thought it was better to remain independent and strong than making a commitment to another. When women we’re courageous in business and battle but afraid or ashamed to be mothers (and aborting their unwanted children).

I’m not sure when shopping and “girls night out” for moms became more important than getting married and raising healthy families. When putting off stable relationships till they were done with the bad boys and wanted to get married at 29 became acceptable. When staying out and getting drunk and sleeping with random men all throughout their college “careers” became cooler than raising a family. I’m not sure when women became irresponsible girls.

Our culture has a selfish girl problem. In history, they called it a recipe for society disaster. I call it immaturity and selfishness. Women so focused on their dreams, their visions, and their desires that they are starting to find themselves wealthy, known, and alone.

The adult world doesn’t need more irresponsible and selfish girls. We need women who will grow up, know up, and show up and support a functioning society with morals and values. Who will fight for romance and commit quickly and stay indefinitely. To turn their hearts toward children and work to raise them well (seriously). To be friends who grow friends. Not just by compliments, but accountability and conviction. We need more women.

We need more women of integrity and character. Those who will hold a moral code and not compromise it. Those who love their husbands, treat them as they would their own sons and follow them when everything doesn’t make sense… They would follow. We need more real women.”

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28 thoughts on “Why Is Shaming Men OK, but Shaming Women isn’t?

  1. Whilst reading your post I was listening to some Friday afternoon Pink Floyd and I think they summed it up best. The reason why its okay to shame men and not women is because men are “comfortably numb”. To start things off, men are taught that they are savages that can only be tamed by a strict society, the church or ‘a good woman’. When they are shamed like this the thought process is “Yeah, I could be doing better. What’s the matter with me?”. I know because this was my thought process for a long, long time. Always fighting to leave behind the savage. Men accept the shame believing it’s something they need to improve. No pain, no gain, right? Aren’t we ALL sinners? This leads to the second half of the equation – numbness. Because they accept the shame they feel no need to speak up about it. The majority of men would shake their heads in agreement, even if they didn’t really agree. They will then proceed to go along with the program. Eventually they wont even feel the need to disagree. They just become numb to the shame, the taunts, the “I am the manliest man in the room so you need to strive to emulate me” speeches. It wont make a difference any more because they feel they can never achieve that goal.

  2. I am reminded of conversations I’ve had where my (male) coworkers were complaining about how awful marriage was, and my response was to say Mrs. Bubba had given me my kids (and done extra credit to get them there), my truck, my power tools, my guns….didn’t know exactly what they were complaining about.

    And it seems to me that the tactic of shaming really is about the same kind of thing that our “scared straight” tactics in school….not terribly effective.

  3. Your post is actually very intresting. We actually need more Real Men and women in our society. The whole world is crumbling due to lack of Real mothers and father who can give the necessary Training to their children and also do make comittment and sacrifice to better their family..
    I have been talking on xteristics of Real Men on my blog http://www.dorchesterdotcom.wordpress.com

  4. Thanks SnapperTrx, I agree with you.

    I also am kind of shocked that more women aren’t seeing that the reason men aren’t getting married at the same rate as they once were, is because the benefits of marriage is just so insanely low right now for them. Women have never treated men worse than men are being treated right now when they’re married. There’s no guarantee that a wife he marries (even a Christian wife) will actually want to have regular sex with him, or want to submit to his leadership, or want to respect him (or as one reader put it to me, even show her husband basic kindness!!!). So when women feel this entitled to abuse their men (I think of it as abuse anyway), then why would men want to willingly go into something like that where she also can get his kids and get paid child support, even when she’s the one that cheated on him?

    It’s a little insane to me.

  5. The reason women don’t see this is for the same reason men are becoming numb – they are repeatedly told their husbands are not doing enough and could be (or SHOULD be) doing more. Dalrock and others have pointed out repeatedly that mothers day services at churches consist of lifting mothers up as saints, while fathers day services consist of bashing husbands as lazy, no-good, heathen men. Society in general continually shows men/husbands in a bad light. They are either numbskulls who can barely breathe without the wisdom and guidance of their wives or they are cold, calculating and intelligent murderers and rapists. Women see what they want to see, and the majority of women are first spoon fed the lie that they are doing so much yet receive so little for their services, then they are told their husbands don’t give enough help at the end of a 8-12 hour work day.

    Men are still willingly get married because they have something that is quickly being squashed – hope. Every man that gets married has some kind of hope: hope of having children, hope of having a sweet, sexy wife who will stick around until the end or sometimes just hope of a ready supply of sex and decent food. What we are seeing now with the MGTOW movement is that hope being crushed out of existence as men decide its not worth it. All the while the women cry out because they can’t find good men, when in reality, good men cant find good women. Society has eliminated shame from women being whores, from unwarranted divorce and made a stigma out of having children or being even remotely submissive to a man. We are watching a perfect storm brew in front of our very eyes. Western men don’t have the gonads to stand up and take their rightful authority by force anymore – but guess who does? The men of the Middle East, and they will crush the West if the West doesn’t get it’s act together.

  6. “Society has eliminated shame from women being whores, from unwarranted divorce and made a stigma out of having children or being even remotely submissive to a man.”

    Exactly, Snapper, it’s “wrong” to shame women into traditional roles where they actually had to bring something to the table other than being empowered, and yet people are ready to try to shame men into the same position of traditional masculinity – which many are just flat out rejecting because there’s very little in it for them anymore.

    With the rise of the internet and mass forums where men get together and talk about their shared experiences in marriage, they’re finding out that it’s a very bad deal for them unless they pick a rare woman who actually does bring value to their lives. And even then, the legal ramifications of marriage makes a lot of them afraid to enter into marriage even *with* a good woman. So it’s a losing situation all around, with society at the detriment because we will be losing more families if it keeps up.

  7. i think Snapper’s right … numb. loss of hope. a recipe for just quitting. walking away. not knowing what to do. i think this whole manosphere is creating an evolution of something that will be harsh yet good in the long run.

    *****

    but … wow. i know it’s ‘shaming’ … but there’s a ton of truth in what you wrote about women.

    Rewritten for women:

    “I’m not sure when women decided that 30 was the new 15.”

    when their parents didn’t force them to grow up and take responsibility. when they bought into the lie that they’re too precious to have to do the hard parts of life. unlearning the lies will be harder than learning the truth.

    “When women thought it was better to remain independent and strong than making a commitment to another. When women we’re courageous in business and battle but afraid or ashamed to be mothers (and aborting their unwanted children).”

    the lies of feminism acted out … and women are still miserable.

    and … omw … the subtle ‘battle’ between sahm’s and working mom’s. actually, the subtle jealousies and comparisons women make, dividing one another rather than building each other up. i was married 11 years before my first baby was born. i had waited sooo long for this longing of my heart to be fulfilled. and another mom of 3 actually said to me, “You’re not a *real* mother until you’ve had at least two children.” really? then i had a 2nd daughter … and you know what happened then? other mothers demeaned me b/c i didn’t also have a son, so i didn’t *really* know about parenting. women are flat-out mean to each other.

    “I’m not sure when shopping and “girls night out” for moms became more important than getting married and raising healthy families. When putting off stable relationships till they were done with the bad boys and wanted to get married at 29 became acceptable. When staying out and getting drunk and sleeping with random men all throughout their college “careers” became cooler than raising a family. I’m not sure when women became irresponsible girls. Our culture has a selfish girl problem. In history, they called it a recipe for society disaster. I call it immaturity and selfishness. Women so focused on their dreams, their visions, and their desires that they are starting to find themselves wealthy, known, and alone.”

    so much entitlement. ‘girl power.’ ‘i am the best!’ ‘i can do it ALL!’ ‘i am WOMAN!’ feminism created a ghost enemy, and women started fighting it not even knowing they were fighting something that didn’t exist … and they fueled each other, and cheered each other on and on and on … till they’ve all gone over the cliff and can’t figure out how they even got there.

    “The adult world doesn’t need more irresponsible and selfish girls. We need women who will grow up, know up, and show up and support a functioning society with morals and values. Who will fight for romance and commit quickly and stay indefinitely. To turn their hearts toward children and work to raise them well (seriously). To be friends who grow friends. Not just by compliments, but accountability and conviction. We need more women. We need more women of integrity and character. Those who will hold a moral code and not compromise it. Those who love their husbands, treat them as they would their own sons and follow them when everything doesn’t make sense… They would follow. We need more real women.”

    and the reality is, this is all true. pointing a finger at them and shaming them won’t win the masses. they’ve bought the lie, and unlearning that will take time. sadly, they have sacrificed their lives on the alter of lies, and if they will ever see the truth and admit it, they’ll have to swallow a huge humility pill. a very bitter, nauseating, disgusting pill. but being all cuddly and gentle won’t work, either.

    Matt 10:16 ““Behold, I am sending you out as sheep in the midst of wolves, so be wise as serpents and innocent as doves.”

    somehow … we need to raise a generation that believes the truth that it is NOT all about them. that sacrifice is worth something. that giving your life for another, for God, is a life of value and great worth.

    and somehow we need to live in such a way that we teach this simply by how we live.

    we need to build supportive communities with each other where God’s Holy Word is read, believed, honored, and acted out.

    you’re doing a great job, Dragonfly, being a wife and mamma, honoring God, searching for Truth.

  8. Thank you Ame, I am trying!!! I have conversations with friends about this and sometimes they think I’m crazy, but usually they have to agree that it’s anti-male.

    Thank you for the encouragement!

  9. Dragonfly,
    In today’s toxic gender climate (women vs men) I am really very curious what you teach your sons on how to interact with women? Their opportunity to secure a God fearing, loyal and kind wife for themselves is extremely slim at best; as even the so-called Christian women have no compunction about destroying the family and marriage over the most trivial or in some cases. non existent, reasons.
    IMO the feminist message has nearly wiped out any good will and trust between the sexes. What should today’s young men do or aspire for? Marriage? Co-habitation? Bachelorhood?

    Is it even wise to caution them that future relationships with women may very well destroy them emotionally and financially? As I do not have any sons I can only speculate what I might have told my own.

  10. Ame,
    ““The adult world doesn’t need more irresponsible and selfish girls. We need women who will grow up, know up, and show up and support a functioning society with morals and values. Who will fight for romance and commit quickly and stay indefinitely. To turn their hearts toward children and work to raise them well (seriously). To be friends who grow friends. Not just by compliments, but accountability and conviction. We need more women. We need more women of integrity and character. Those who will hold a moral code and not compromise it. Those who love their husbands, treat them as they would their own sons and follow them when everything doesn’t make sense… They would follow. We need more real women.”

    I agree completely that this is NEEDED, but I seriously doubt it will become reality here in the western oriented world. IMO we have already passed the point of no return regarding the corruption of western females in general, it will continue to decline unchecked.

  11. I am disgusted with our culture, especially christian culture. Christians have access to wisdom in scripture, but they have discarded it in very subtle ways. They don’t even see through obvious double-standards. They don’t see the way that emotion has become the new standard for truth.

    Emotions are important, but they don’t determine what is true or real. The devotion to the vision of the saintly woman and the evil man is emotional tripe. Psychologists call it splitting.

    Not a single christian counselor or pastor I’ve talked to is able to even consider that they might need to hold a woman responsible. They have all assumed that the man is the problem from the beginning. If the wife has done anything wrong, it must’ve been defensive so they ignore it.

    When I see this kind of attitude has become so pervasive, even among people who have studied, and devoted themselves to God’s Word of Truth, it is demoralizing. It tells us just how deeply emotional reasoning has saturated our culture.

  12. I’d like to add that there are definitely things that we *should* be ashamed of — both men and women. The problem with the original facebook post isn’t that it was completely wrong. After all, should a man not love his family above his pleasure?

    The real problem with the post was the contempt. It’s the attitude that heaping shame on others is okay because they aren’t worth as much. It’s a distortion in perception and belief that makes the original author feel justified in heaping shame on others.

  13. Right O.O.C., I remember learning that the degree of harshness we have towards others, is directly proportional to our lack of understanding our own issues.

  14. Dragonfly, sad to say I haven’t been around lately, but I hope as always that you and yours are well.

    As others have noted, the hypocrisy in gender-based shaming (really we mean gender roles) appears bright and blatant and for that reason will likely be short-lived. The strong currents in our culture appear to only be those that influence consumption.

    Women are being exploited now, and we know it by how thoroughly and comically the culture demands of them: YOU ARE EMPOWERED AND AWESOME AND MUST DO/BUY THESE BILLION THINGS.

    I remember early in my marriage when I made the same economic decision millions of men made when getting married or starting a family: I need to train to make more money. Hence grad school (finished way early) while working full time. Very few men need bother to think such things now.

    We shame men for women to hear so women feel some Schadenfreude and less cognitive dissonance about how much they “leaned in” and “grrl power,” etc. Not for men to actually change.

    We must keep shaming men and exploiting women, otherwise the economy will lose billions in future growth.

  15. Hey Larry, just wrote a post intended to address what we’re going to teach our sons regarding women and searching for a future wife.

    It’s probably going to be a small series of posts on the different virtues that women can work to obtain, and then application in their lives that will be teachable to their sons on what to look for and know. Hope you like it!

  16. Dragonfly, I am most certainly looking forward to what you write on this. Two of the most important lessons all young men need to learn is discernment and patience. They will have to sift through a lot of chaff to find a single kernel, then determine if that one piece of grain is healthy or not.
    These next articles of yours may be much more important than you realize. Isaiah 52:12

  17. Larry G
    APRIL 17, 2016 AT 12:03 AM
    “You know it’s too late to turn back the anti-male cultural clock. right?”

    Larry … i hate being without hope. i hate giving my girls no hope.

    —–

    Dragonfly … i’ll be back to read through everything more thoroughly. i think what you write is important 🙂

  18. Dragonfly –
    “Women have never treated men worse than men are being treated right now when they’re married. There’s no guarantee that a wife he marries (even a Christian wife) will actually want to have regular sex with him, or want to submit to his leadership, or want to respect him (or as one reader put it to me, even show her husband basic kindness!!!). So when women feel this entitled to abuse their men (I think of it as abuse anyway), then why would men want to willingly go into something like that where she also can get his kids and get paid child support, even when she’s the one that cheated on him?”

    you are absolutely correct; it IS abuse.

  19. Larry –
    “I agree completely that this is NEEDED, but I seriously doubt it will become reality here in the western oriented world. IMO we have already passed the point of no return regarding the corruption of western females in general, it will continue to decline unchecked.”

    sigh.

    i really don’t have any answers. i get so overwhelmed that i have to stop and just focus on what i can do.

  20. Ame, I feel that way, too, when I think about the downsides of sex-relations in our current day. You could say a good thing that came from reading more intensely about these issues is that it’s caused my husband and I to take them far more seriously than we probably would have otherwise. And that’s led to us actively thinking about ways to help our boys and any future girls to be able to live the lives they want. But I’m glad you don’t let yourself stay overwhelmed, you instead use it for good! I know it’s so tempting to because things seem to be so negative, but be encouraged, you’re making such a positive impact in your daughters’ lives, and have a wonderful husband that adores you! 😀 There are still many people that love God and are trying to search for truth left in this world.

  21. Dragonfly –
    “but be encouraged, you’re making such a positive impact in your daughters’ lives, and have a wonderful husband that adores you! 😀 ”

    thank you! 🙂

    “There are still many people that love God and are trying to search for truth left in this world.”

    I pray that where ever I am, i’m simply a light that leads people to Jesus. nothing big or huge, just simple.

  22. Fueled by Prozac

    Concerning dating older women (> 50) most that I have met literally run on Prozac + wine. They love their alcohol and drugs more than me. I have compared notes with other men and they report the same thing.
    Also, the last 6 women I dated (age > 50 ) were all destitute. I mean living in someones guest room, basement or rundown camper. They are destitute because they can’t hold a job. That should be taken into account as to why they are not getting married. It is not the men; it is the women.

  23. Jonathan –
    “Concerning dating older women (> 50) most that I have met literally run on Prozac + wine.”

    I’ve known quite a few of those. they down their Prozac with their wine. and laugh about it. and they’re bitter. most of those I’ve known are still married and bitter and mean. I had forgotten about them as I’ve not been around that group for many years. but you’re right … there’s a bunch of them out there.

  24. “Also, the last 6 women I dated (age > 50 ) were all destitute. I mean living in someones guest room, basement or rundown camper. They are destitute because they can’t hold a job. That should be taken into account as to why they are not getting married. ”

    Yikes, I’ve seen this, too. I don’t understand it, except that maybe they’ve missed out on God’s plan for their life (marriage and children) or have messed up the blessings He had for the, and so they are “destitute,” (what a good word to describe it).

    Really sad. Their life doesn’t have to end or become wine + Prozac, there’s always something more to live for, even if they feel like they’ve ruined everything, or missed out on some major blessings because of their decisions.

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