Boyfriend Isn’t Ready to Get Engaged?

Sometimes I get awesome emails from young female readers about their relationship issues, and letting me know what they our younger generation is facing when it comes to dating problems.

This is not one of those emails. (Psyche!) 😛

This is a question posed from a site that I used to be an active commentator on in helping with marriage conflict and counseling, Enotalone.com.  It’s a great question, and hopefully it will help any of you out there reading this that are interested in what you should do, or if you’re ever in this position.

I’ve been with my boyfriend for 3 years. I’m in my late 20’s and he’s in his early 30’s. My boyfriend’s company recently offered him a position in one of their locations in India. The position comes with a rather large increase in salary and a new title. It’s a great opportunity for him but it’s in a different country and he doesn’t know how long they will want him there for. It will be at least a year but it could very well be longer.

He’s asked me to move there with him. I’m lucky that I can work remotely from anywhere so that isn’t a huge problem. It’ll be a hassle but it can work. But moving there will mean living in a place where I won’t know a single person, I don’t know the language or customs or anything. I don’t know what I will do with my house here or my car or anything. i feel like I would be giving up a lot. I’m ready to get married and start a family. At my age, I think this is perfectly reasonable.

However, I do want to be with him and I am considering it. But my problem is, I want us to at least be engaged before I make such a big change for him and for us. I don’t think that’s asking for too much. I feel like if I’m willing to change my entire life, then i want some kind of commitment from him. Being engaged doesn’t mean we get married immediately but it shows that he’s serious about us and I really want that commitment first.

but he isn’t ready to get engaged. He says that he doesn’t feel like we’re there yet in our relationship.

What should I do? Is this the end of our relationship?”

***

Ok, so this is actually a really great question, and if you’re a reader and feel like you have some advice to chip in, by all means PLEASE do so 🙂  The more the merrier I think, especially with issues like this.

The problem with relationships in this post-feminist age is that people go into them without being clear about their specific end goals.  Obviously, this young woman is wanting marriage and a family, and in my opinion, this is in her best interest and great for her.  It’s not clear if this woman is a Christian, if they’re cohabitating (living in sin), but even if she is/isn’t, getting married young and starting her family is God’s design for her.  Many women find their happiness and fulfillment in this godly role, even if it isn’t for everyone to pursue (those who have the gift of singleness).

However, for men, marriage has become something that’s risky to enter.  We are now seeing increasing numbers of men in the 20-35 age range who are turning their backs on marriage, due to the lack of assurance that their future wife will even desire to meet their needs (two of the main ones being respect and sex), as well as all the financial and emotional risk of divorce if their wife initiates one.  Men are caught in a strange predicament of having to commit their everything to one woman, only to then feel trapped in a sexless marriage, or be constantly disrespected by their wives and undermined as the godly leader of their home.  The risk of losing everything, all their financial success, their business success, their children and the rights to see them if she falsely accuses him so that she gains sole custody, are on him and him alone.  Most women (especially young ones) have no idea how to comprehend all this and see from a man’s point of view, how dangerous and unappealing marriage is starting to look.

Women (even Christian women) are initiating more divorces than men, and many times, for reasons that are unbiblical and merely based on their unhappiness or discontentment in their marriage.  There are many things that simply don’t warrant divorce,  but could be worked through, or (gasp) even suffered through together.  I know in our current times, it’s politically incorrect to even suggest that marriage should be expected to be at times hard or difficult.  And to be clear, I’m not speaking about cases of infidelity or abuse, where the wife needs to divorce in order to keep herself or any children safe.  It’s just honest to look at what our society has created now, though, and admit that it’s no longer in a single man’s best interest to get married, unless he’s certain he’s found the best woman out there for him who won’t destroy their family.

So now we come to her dilemma.  My answer would be that she needs to move on from this relationship.  She either isn’t the woman he truly wants to commit to, or he doesn’t truly want to commit to anyone at this time (or even possibly ever).  It may be that he just wants a lifetime partner to cohabitate with, and is not interested in the legal ramifications of marriage.  Since their end goals are so opposite, she needs to be spending her time elsewhere, looking for a partner who is ready and interested in marrying her.  She needs to count her past 3 years in this relationship as wasted time, and choose more wisely next time based on the man’s specific end goals.  It may sound offensive to call this “wasted time,” however time is each person’s most precious commodity that they have, and with her desire to get married and have children, it is of the most importance that she have a sober view of how critical it is that she not get herself into another disappointing relationship where she is less likely to achieve her end goals.

Another thing I would advise any woman in her position, is that she should also be making herself into the best woman that they can be, physically, emotionally, spiritually, and mindfully.  Reading books to broaden her mind, the classics, getting into her best shape physically so that she’s at her most attractive, wearing clothes that accentuate her shape, wearing her hair and makeup in tasteful and feminine ways… all these things are important if she’s interested in finding a husband.  ❤

Good luck!

Dragonfly

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41 thoughts on “Boyfriend Isn’t Ready to Get Engaged?

  1. Yes, as painful as it is, she should move on. It amazes me how long couples date before realizing the other one may never be willing to commit to marriage. I would recommend within six months (maybe less) of starting dating, one desiring marriage (to someone, but maybe not the current “partner”) should be communicating it to the other, or at least asking if the other desires the same, too. If the answer is not “yes”, cut your losses and leave.

    By the way, in her case, I wouldn’t say she was marrying young, as she is already in her late 20s.

  2. Thank you for the correction, OKRickety, I think I was going off of her age when she got into a relationship with him, would have been 3 years prior to being “late 20’s,” but you’re right… I got married at 20, almost 21, which is considered “too young,” in our society 😉 But I love it. I love knowing that we’re coming up on almost a decade together and 9 years married!

    “should be communicating it to the other, or at least asking if the other desires the same, too.”

    I agree! It’s very strange to me that couples, especially women, aren’t told to ask or even talk about marriage. Of course, she doesn’t want to scare him away, but how else is she supposed to find out if he’s also marriage-minded, or if she’s wasting her time (and youth! which is pretty huge)?

  3. I would advise the same as you, Dragonfly.
    “Engagement” isn’t enough for her to follow him out of the country and uproot herself away from friends, job, and family if he isn’t interested in getting married.
    The fact that he is still “not ready to be engaged” after three years is a very bad sign (I know a person who has been engaged for seven years so engagement doesn’t indicate a whole lot).

    To put it simple and straight, if he values her enough to marry her, this would be the time to do it. She could look at this move as a gift. Otherwise, she could wake up and find herself well into her thirties with a man who has completely different future goals and doesn’t see her in them.

  4. I don’t know that she should necessarily give up on this relationship, 3 years is a significant amount of time to be together. If they are actually making it work right now (assuming they’re co-habititing), then the effective difference between what they have now and a marriage is very minor. Has she asked him if he’s at all interested in marriage? If he is, and he’s just waiting to be sure (understandable, given the current divorce court climate), then I imagine sticking it out could turn out to be a grand adventure and bring them closer.

    This happens so so often to soldiers, with their transient lifestyle. When a young soldier meets a girl (or boy, I guess, although it’s more rare) and they really hit it off, it’s a great thing, but then the soldier gets orders to a new duty station after only a few months, less than a year, possibly on the other side of the world, and what’s to be done? Having counseled many a young soldier in my day about things like this, I’ve noticed that the ones who are successful in these relationships are the ones that ask the hard questions. Are you willing to get married? Do you ever want to get married? Are we wasting our time? No one wants to ask these questions, because the answers can be so devastating, but without that knowledge, you can’t make the best decisions for your life.

    I think she should really talk about their future as he sees it, openly, honestly, and without any judgement, before making such a big decision. If he’s all in, but wants to wait, then stick it out, otherwise….yeah, time to move on and treasure the memories.

  5. No, Liz, I got it from a community of really awesome people over at Enotalone, a place I used to participate in. I don’t comment there anymore because it was before I had kids (and it is TIME consuming 🙂 in a good way though), but the article came from here (I’ll have to edit the post to have the link in it as well): https://www.enotalone.com/forum/showthread.php?t=512484

    It sounds like she’s getting good advice from them as usual 🙂 One responder says she spent 6 years wasting her time in a relationship like that, and as a result, she DOESN’T have the family and kids she wanted. 😦

    This was more to get this kind of real life problem stuff out there for other women to read and think about 🙂 I did have one younger woman email me about a similar situation though, but this isn’t her same story.

  6. Also, from an update from her response, he’s willing to date and then break up when he leaves. So she’d be wasting 6 months of her time just to be broken up with.

    He’s just not that into her 😦 Women need to see these kinds of situations and make their plans accordingly in my opinion.

  7. “If he is, and he’s just waiting to be sure (understandable, given the current divorce court climate), then I imagine sticking it out could turn out to be a grand adventure and bring them closer.”

    You brought up some really interesting points, Matt, thank you. I can kind of see how this could work out if he was truly in love with her, but from the other things she posted on that thread (sorry I hadn’t linked it before), it sounds like he’s fine without her in his life. That and he won’t give her a real time line of when he’d expect to get married.

    I love how you come from a perspective of having counseled soldiers through this.

    ” I’ve noticed that the ones who are successful in these relationships are the ones that ask the hard questions. Are you willing to get married? Do you ever want to get married? Are we wasting our time? No one wants to ask these questions, because the answers can be so devastating, but without that knowledge, you can’t make the best decisions for your life.”

    ^That is awesome. It’s obvious that they didn’t talk about it until his job/career move came up… which is something that bothers me about the dating environment in our society now… it’s aimless, and almost pointless. It’s important to have your end goals in mind – for any person considering anything really.

  8. Thanks for the update. Until I read that, there wasn’t enough information to offer an opinion.
    Yes, she needs to move on.
    As a kid, I saw the movie “Guys and Dolls” with my Dad. There was a character named Nathan Detroit who, finally, proposed after ten years to his girl. She slapped him and said “Yes”.

  9. Yeah, he’s just not that into her. 😦
    Women often cling to stories about very longterm “he wasn’t ready yet” relationships that eventually lead to marriage, one day at the ten year point or something. Those stories are rare and misleading, but many women will cling to them (and/or use them to offer encouragement because let’s face it, the truth is harsh, the reason I wanted to know if she was reading…I’m more candid that way…directness in a case like this can be kind of cold and cruel).
    The story that is far from rare, incredibly common even, is the scenario where the guy just wasn’t ready for marriage but then they broke up and he found someone right away after that and…after a quick engagement they tie the knot. I don’t know how many times I’ve heard a guy say “it’s just a piece of paper, it shouldn’t matter” only to find the person he wanted to marry and then change his mind. It’s the Johnny Depp story, it’s the Harry Met Sally story (Meg Ryan’s character who lived with her boyfriend for years), it’s my old college friend’s story, and I’ve seen it many many times since.

    If she weren’t looking for marriage and was…maybe 21, not much older than that, I might agree more with Matt above about the “fun life adventure” bit. But she isn’t a young girl anymore. That’s a fun life adventure story to do with a husband (been there, done that).

  10. Hey Dragonfly,

    We women have a way of conversing with men where we think we have told them what we want while never coming right out and saying it and then being sorely disappointed when they don’t understand what we said because we hint and beat around the bush. So, I’d advise her to sit down with her SO and have a very clear conversation with him. Lay it on the line precisely what she wants (very calmly) and see if his goals line up with hers.

    It sounds like from your additional comments that she may have done this and his goals are different than hers. Given this I would tell her to break it off and not go. She’s already in her later 20’s and time is wasting. It would not behoove her to waste any more.

    It can’t be easy for her, but she needs to settle her mind on what she really wants from life and pursue that.

  11. Also, you asked me if there would be a situation if there might be a case where she would want to move to show loyalty or submission. That’s tough. I mean, it’s India. First if Christian I would tell he no unless they married before they went, but assuming she’s not Christian? Maybe if she was 21 and had a lot more time it could be a great way to show her loyalty to him and her desire to follow him not to mention show she is game for adventure and that she highly trusts him.

    But late 20’s and three years into a relationship? If he’s not sure now, then I agree with you and Liz. He’s just not that into her.

  12. Move on. I’d be very surprised if they’re not sleeping together, and his suggestion of her “moving” with him to India is a sign that he knows that he’s moving to a culture that he doesn’t understand, and that is sexually far more conservative than the U.S. In other words, he knows he’s going to be a “john” or celibate there unless she joins him.

    Looks like a great time for her to let him know that if he wants to enjoy the fruit, he’d better learn to take care of the orchard. What less would a sensible person of either sex want in our world of nearly 30 STDs, really?

  13. due to the lack of assurance that their future wife will even desire to meet their needs

    *Purely male view* – reader beware…

    Excellent analysis of the problem. Men and women have different time-scales, women can have children from 14-44 – at most, most women want 2 children, so that means they have to start in their mid-20’s to have a realistic chance of achieving that. Men, don’t really care that much about when they start since they can have children from 16 – death. (And for men, children are a side-effect to what they want – sex.) But if they marry young, they can have 18+ years of paying for the mistake of choosing a woman with a different agenda – marry, divorce, rake in the money.

    Different goals – and the laws all back the women, not the men. (You can thank Feminism for that.) The only chance a man has is “not to play the game” and more and more men are choosing that option. But there are still a lot of stupid men out there who haven’t gotten the memo – maybe she can find one of them. Or she can do the “alpha-f**ks – beta bucks” routine and have kids without marriage and look for a sucker to support/raise them. Many women do that and it works for them.

    It’s the way of the world today… The women created this mess to benefit them – and are finding that as men catch on, it’s ending badly for women. It’s not pretty, but that is life in the post-feminist age…

    Personally, I find the situation benefits men the most – because we can move from one young woman to the next without worry, or commitment. As long as you play the game right. No commitments, no messiness, just fun, and lots of sex. That’s ideal for a man – not so much for women that want the “nesting” thing, and find, when they start looking, they missed their chance.

    Women tend to look at things emotionally, men are logical. So today, marriage is just a bad deal for men, pretty much from every angle. Purely a male perspective there… So men are looking for ways to exploit the system to benefit themselves, if they can. And marriage isn’t even an option from that perspective.

  14. Yep I would agree w what many here have said. If after three years she doesn’t know where this is going — it’s going nowhere. She should not move w him without a firm commitment for sure. She never should have moved in with him w/o a firm commitment, actually!

  15. I am really stunned by this conversation.

    She isn’t married to him. She is endangering her soul, and by teh same token her physical health, by continuing in this way (if he will get no-commitment sex from her, then he’ll get it from someone else, too). Of course she should leave! Why isn’t anybody telling her to get OUT and leave this sinful lifestyle and cut it out!

    There are folks leaving comments here who clearly know this, and aren’t saying it when it needs to be said. I cannot understand this at all. Call a spade a spade, call a mortal sin a mortal sin. Because everybody is too scared to do this, we are in the mess we’re in today. Cut out the “discussion” — there isn’t one to be had. You write on and on and on at great length dissecting this, picking it to death, and conveniently fail to mention that there are things called death, judgment and hell.

  16. “You write on and on and on at great length dissecting this, picking it to death, and conveniently fail to mention that there are things called death, judgment and hell.”

    You bring up a good point, and it’s kind of what my blog is all about. I did mention that cohabitation was “living in sin,” but you’re right, I don’t point blank throw out her entire dilemma under the blanket of condemnation, to me, that would just be unfruitful and unhelpful to the lost women I’m trying to reach.

    She’s from my generation, and honestly, many of the people raising my generation did a very poor job of instilling morals and religion or love of God. She has no reference point, STMA, and would feel only condemnation if you didn’t explain why God has His laws in place, to protect her. I’m trying to bridge that gap, and guess what? It isn’t easy. I’m not being tolerant of her sin, but I am addressing the general issue of should a woman go to another country (even if they weren’t living in sin, even if she had a separate house set up together), even if she wasn’t engaged. Believe or not, there are women stuck in this situation of wondering if they should bother chasing a man who is obviously not set on marrying her (yet). No one’s told these younger women that they deserve better, that God has a better plan for them. I’m trying to bridge that gap by making sense to them, by building a relationship with the ones who do email me about their issues, then I introduce God as what they need. It works better than coming at them from a religious place they aren’t familiar with and will reject automatically.

  17. St. Thomas More Academy,

    I am really stunned by this conversation.

    Frankly, I’m stunned by your response. Not because of your willingness to say sex outside of marriage is sin, but because you are assuming that this is the case.

    At least I don’t think there is direct evidence. The closest she comes to saying this is “I’ve been with my boyfriend for 3 years.” and “He’s asked me to move there with him”. She doesn’t say “I’m living with my boyfriend”, “He wants me to live with him in India”, or “The sex is great”.

    For now, I am giving her the benefit of the doubt. In reality, it is quite likely that she is having sex with her boyfriend. If so, and she claims to be Christian, then, yes, she should be told she is sinning. If she is not Christian, it’s still sin, but telling her so is likely to have little effect.

  18. “What less would a sensible person of either sex want in our world of nearly 30 STDs, really?”

    Exactly, Bike Bubba, I don’t get it. I think many of these people grew up with divorced parents, so they’re scared of marriage, have no religious convictions inspiring them that way, and so they just kind of move along through life without knowing Truth.

  19. Thank you, Stingray… I was interested in what you would say about the loyalty and submission part – to me that is tricky also, I feel like you, that sometimes it actually may be appropriate. And it probably differs case by case anyway, such as actually being engaged, or him being very keen on marrying her, or them deciding to get married before (if things like that were negotiable). Thank you 🙂

  20. “The story that is far from rare, incredibly common even, is the scenario where the guy just wasn’t ready for marriage but then they broke up and he found someone right away after that and…after a quick engagement they tie the knot. ”

    This is so true Liz, thanks… it gives women all the more reason to be cautious of such relationships, because it becomes more clear that he really was just using her until he found someone he really wanted to be with. I guess women try to avoid talking about these truths because it can be so painful. For a young woman that’s never been told that this is how it works, it’s painful to wake up to reality that she wasted those years.

  21. “Frankly, I’m stunned by your response. Not because of your willingness to say sex outside of marriage is sin, but because you are assuming that this is the case.

    At least I don’t think there is direct evidence. The closest she comes to saying this is “I’ve been with my boyfriend for 3 years.” and “He’s asked me to move there with him”. She doesn’t say “I’m living with my boyfriend”, “He wants me to live with him in India”, or “The sex is great”. ”

    I would think it’s pretty obvious. You DON’T live with someone before marriage, PERIOD. To do so, even if it is platonic (sure, if you really believe that it is, there’s a lovely bridge between Manhattan and Brooklyn for sale), is a public scandal. Why are you pulling wool over your own eyes? Living with him? C’mon, really, do you think they are simply playing house? India without marriage? The answer to this is obvious. It is NO! Why is this so difficult to understand? You are all beating around the bush on a subject that has a clear, no-nonsense answer.

    Seems like the main thing among all of you and your kind — the Red Pillians and Manospherians — is submission, submission, submission of women at all costs — NOT moral absolutes. If you are truly going to land on the side of truth, then DO IT. Stop mollycoddling.

    Stingray,

    I am not saying that we should come out and be overly blunt with her in the way I’m being here with all of you. She obviously has been taught nothing, or has thrown it away, or whatever. You need a different approach with her personally, but one that is at the same time firm and no-nonsense — i.e., you MUST cut off this relationship NOW, and we will all be here to help you to do that. We will offer you the support you need, the church family you need, the right kinds of friends to get your life back on the right track.

    No, I’m using this approach with you, with folks who ought to know better, and ought to be taking the approach of condemning the sin (not the sinner). Frankly, your responses of soft-pedaling amongst yourselves this whole mess is just unbelievable to me. You word things ambiguously, you step around something that is a clear alarming red flag, and you refuse to say, “THIS IS A SIN.” (I am using “you” in the plural sense here, but I am especially shocked at you, since you are a Catholic homeschooling mother.)

    I’d better stop here, because I have just about lost faith in the humanity writing these red pill blogs — even the Christians among them are willing to compromise safety and sanity, the Ten Commandments, the ultimate truths, in order to push the submission line.

  22. St Thomas Moore,

    And when you are speaking to a nonChristian and they ask you this question about loyalty and submission, you know they are non Christian, what do you say? I said above, that if she was Christian, obviously you say marriage first. But what do you say to others? Those you know are going to blow off everything you said, no matter how kindly you say it?

    There is a beauty to submission. There is a path to God there for those who will look for it and it was the path that brought me to God myself. Some will say do not cast pearls before swine and there is a time and a place for that. But there is a time and a place to be shrewd and to teach the beauty of submission and of a Godly marriage and pray that this will lead those towards God in a way that just will not work another way.

  23. I say she needs to move on with her life and find someone else. He obviously is showing no desire to commit. No need for her to uproot herself and go so far away from family and friends for a man who won’t commit to her.

  24. STMA, I know you told me maybe a couple of weeks ago, that you didn’t like causing drama or getting into online arguments (or real life arguments). It’s fine for disagreement here, I think it helps us to see things from different points of view, but your comment crosses the line into being disrespectful to the commenters, and to me as a blog host. Let’s be peaceful here. I did say it was living in sin. To me, that is enough for this post. There’s no need to scold us or write a post trying to correct everyone into your line of thinking. I actually believe most of us agree that cohabitating is sinful, you’re just upset that the post and comments didn’t come down harder in judgment on her, when the main concern of the post had to do with another issue entirely.

    “Seems like the main thing among all of you and your kind — the Red Pillians and Manospherians — is submission, submission, submission of women at all costs — NOT moral absolutes. If you are truly going to land on the side of truth, then DO IT. Stop mollycoddling.”

    No one is telling her that she should just submit to him to her own detriment, in fact, I think the majority of commenters are saying the opposite. And several Christian commenters have already said that she shouldn’t live with him at all (here or India). Again, let’s be peaceful and not jump to conclusions.

  25. Dragonfly,
    I apologize again; it’s not at all uncommon for people to let me know that I have no business opening my mouth. Please accept my apologies. I’ll withdraw from this now. Thank you for your consideration in allowing me to comment.

  26. You’re very welcome, Dragonfly. There is so much there and I try very hard to follow that way. Beauty is tangible and it draws people in a way that nothing else does. Find the beauty and begin the process. That is what I strive for.

  27. STMA, you can comment here and disagree, or even voice your concerns with the red pill (I don’t mind at all, I think there should be more places for women to criticize parts of it they don’t like or understand), but the tone just seemed to lack grace and discretion – but believe me, I’ve been there and gotten too passionate or angry and acted much worse than you have. God’s actually convicted me with the ways I was responding to people and interacting with them, softening up my sharp edges.

    I want people to be able to voice their opinions (however different), in respectful ways here.

  28. And please know you’re welcome here. I don’t really like this line “it’s not at all uncommon for people to let me know that I have no business opening my mouth.” That doesn’t sound good 😦

  29. I think discussions about where the relationship will be heading need to happen at the very beginning of the relationship. Not six months in. From the very beginning, before we even started officially dating (we dated unofficially for a little over a month), my husband told me that any relationship we had he wanted to take seriously with marriage in mind (that was on our second date). If it didn’t work, it didn’t work and there was no commitment either of us were expecting or asking for at that point, but neither of us would be messing around. Some would say that mentioning the M word that early on is too soon and will freak a girl out, but i loved knowing that we were on the same page. I think if I were just looking for a fling, that would have effectively scared me away as well so this might even be some sort of defense mechanism for men in today’s relationship climate. I think it’s important for men to lead these discussions, just like the man is the one to propose.

    I think getting out of the relationship is what this girl needs to do. But the nurse in me can’t help but think preventatively and I think this idea might help.

  30. Regarding STMA’s comments, part of me wonders whether we quibble too much over general vs. special revelation. General revelation is what the physical world tells us–the trees, the starts, etc..–and special revelation is (for Protestants like myself at least) in the Scriptures. Catholics of course would add the Magisterium.

    Now what does this have to do with anything? Simple. If I am confronted with a case like this, the first thing I’ve got to deal with is the reasonable uncertainty from a worldly perspective. Does “have been with him” mean sexually or not? That, in turn, has everything to do with whether we approach these things from a practical perspective, a sin perspective, or both.

    Not knowing, we appeal to general revelation–the way things are in this world–make a couple of educated guesses (I bet it was sexual), and give a “general revelation” answer–no one buys the cow when he’s getting the milk for free.

    Then, if we can assume there is definitely a sin issue involved, we can bring in special revelation, especially if the person claims to be a believer.

    All that noted, we then don’t need to quibble over which is used. One will lead to the other in due time. Paul uses both in his epistles. Both lead to the Gospel.

  31. Haha im trying to get married within the next year or so and the best thing to state is your purpose. I never understood how ppl my age date for no reason or if marriage isnt their end goal.

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