A Sexless 40 Year Marriage

I received a comment from a man named Nathan a couple of nights ago on my post, The Ignorant Sexless Wife.  In the comment, he brings up many issues that can come from a wife rejecting her husband repeatedly and forcing him to live in a technical sexless marriage.

Any thoughts on his suggestions of what this kind of marriage creates (or may create) is welcome, especially regarding his thoughts on “Mama’s Girls.”

From commenter Nathan,

“Having lived in a marriage for over 40 years like the one the writer describes I can attest to the damage it will do not only to him but most likely to his kids as well. If this woman continues treating him this way he will almost certainly find himself taking some of his resentment and frustration out on the kids rather than her.

He could easily find himself locked in a battle with the kids for control and respect. Since she obviously has little or no respect for him she will most likely undermine his authority with the kids and he will almost certainly loose that battle as well.

Waiting for the kids to get older all the while hoping things will get better will prove to be more wasted time.

A woman like this will almost never change because she will never allow herself to see or believe anything she does is wrong. The reality is that his best bet would be to find a really good Divorce Attorney and cut his losses while he is still young enough to heal and have a chance at a decent life. Looking back, it is advice I wish I had followed 40 years ago when my wife gave me the cold shoulder on our wedding night claiming it was too late and she was too tired!

Dragonfly, you are definitely right about men more accurately reporting their sex life of lack there of. You cited “Spreadsheet Guy” in your example. I began a similar thing within a few years of our marriage to counter my wife’s insistence that I was “wrong”, “making it up” and we had sex more than I claimed. When I began “keeping score” what I found was that things were much worse that even I thought. I used one of those little bank calendars and a series of small symbols to indicate what happened on a particular day.

What I found was that I got 17 to 30 outright rejections before she would “allow” anything. Keep in mind this was within the first 5 years of marriage! Time hasn’t changed a thing. Today is 9/3/2015, the last time I got so much as even a kiss from this woman was on 7/25/2015. The last time before that was on 6/25/2015.

See a pattern here?

Here is another topic you may want to explore in another blog; Mama’s Girls. I have read many articles over the years about “Mama’s Boys” and how destructive that twisted, codependent relationship can be to a marriage. I can’t recall ever seeing an article discussing how equally destructive it can be when it’s the wife that’s tied to her manipulative, controlling, domineering, mothers apron strings. I wonder how many of the women like the one in this article also fit the bill for being a “Mama’s Girl” and “Her” husband was just a convenient father and ATM card for “Her” kids, “Her” house and “Her” perfect, planned life?””

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34 thoughts on “A Sexless 40 Year Marriage

  1. Happy long weekend, Dragonfly, I hope you and yours are well!

    *

    I realize I consistently approach this subject from a non-religious perspective, but this fact still seems to apply even to the most fundamentalist couples I know:

    Gentlemen, if she isn’t at least heavily tempted to have sex with you prior to marriage, then perform the following troubleshooting procedure—

    1) Check motherboard. Logic components and capacity could be missing or cross-wired.
    2) Replace RAM. Short-term memory might have become corrupt.
    3) Test power source. Not enough energy to run normal operating processes (i.e., 2-3 times per week as a low average) means power might be incorrectly diverted. Can also corrupt motherboard circuits and lead to RAM damage.

    And while it might not be as simple, sometimes it’s cheaper and more cost-efficient to replace the entire system before it severely damages projects or connected components that you value highly and don’t want to lose.

    *

    Trouble is, this all seems rather heartless to the guy who hasn’t realized that his significant other performs cost-benefit analysis about him ALL the time. No need to be surprised or angry about it or try to place blame.

    A man cannot be happy unless he knows and practices his true value to women and the world.

  2. when my wife gave me the cold shoulder on our wedding night

    You should have gotten an annulment the next day – and it would have been advisable – under reason, “no consummation of marriage”. It won’t get any better… That was your last and only thing you could have done to fix this problem quickly and easily. It’s just downhill from there…

  3. Well i would say get an annulment the next day there can be at least 4 reasons a newlywed wife may not have sex with her husband on their wedding night

    1. She’s tired from the wedding and reception. If this is the case you can have sex the next day.

    2. There is a physical issue, i read a post ( http://biblicalgenderroles.com/2015/09/03/how-much-pain-would-you-endure-to-have-sex-with-your-husband/) where this woman discovered on her wedding night that she had pain a serious discomfort.

    3. She just doesn’t want to, which a husband should have known about this prior to engagement.

    4. Low libido

  4. Wow. And here we have every reason, succinctly listed, to avoid marriage to a self-described “Christian woman” who demands the keys to the sex car.

    IOW, marry someone like this, and enter a life of extra-biblical, hypocritical, secular hell. All justified, of course, because “a husband should have known about this prior to engagement.

    That’s either great parody, Child of Ra, or you are dangerous.

  5. Have you actually read my list? If the case is the wife is tired, the husband and his wife can have sex the next day. If its the case of a physical pain as I gave a link to a woman who actually went through a discomfort of trying to have sex with her husband which she did eventaully overcome by going to the ob/gyn. Last if its a low libdo obviously tlyou can go to the doctor for that as well. In those case i did say those would be grounds for annulment but if she is just out tight says no to sex and there is no issue such as low libdo,sexual discomfort or dysfunction or just tired then yeah divorce or annulment because all a husband is going to look forward too is a sexless marriage.

    Also i never said i was christian, i am a non believer. Also how am I dangerous? When i get married i want have any issues in the marriage bed with my future husband.

  6. I love the internet. People who don’t know anything about anything troll for attention, and claim authority. My bad for replying.

    Just curious, though: Do you use Google translate to assemble your posts from some non-western language?

  7. I found sex physically painful for the first month or so after we got married, but I think that abstinence would have made that worse. It was only through persistence that it got better.

  8. Oh, i thought you were talking about something else lol, but I thought losing your virginity would only be painful once the penis breaks the hymen and after that eveything should be fine

  9. Yes. Sperm has anti-inflammatory properties. The only thing I could guess would create the sort of problem described would be an imperforate hymen (that would require a doctor’s visit for a quick snip). Otherwise, lube up and go!

  10. Well, that wasn’t my experience! And I’ve heard from several other women that it can be painful for a while too.
    I just think it would be helpful for young brides-to-be to be aware of this, so that it doesn’t lead to the kind of marriage described above. (Like if they think, it’s still hurting after a month, it will probably hurt forever!)

  11. Dragonfly, I’ve seen most of Newman’s movies (and yes on Ft. Apache) as he was a major favorite of mine. Three that are less recognized that I enjoy very much are “The Young Philadelphians”, “Sometimes a Great Nation” (from the Ken Kesey novel) and “WUSA” (from the Robert Stone novel A Hall of Mirrors).

    I think his innate goodness (which he had IRL) emerges in all of his movies, even when he plays the Bad Boy.

    Being a ‘mature man’ I enjoy his career arc as a racing driver. I think he started running SCCA in Datsun 510s at age 55, and people said he was horrible. But he persevered and won a national championship in his late 50’s or 60’s, and then became a successful Indy Car owner. Later, he and David Letterman bought new Volvo wagons together — and sent them up to Maine where a guy stuffed 400 hp Mustang motors in them and modified the suspensions.

  12. Of course, one of the greatest lines Paul Newman ever uttered is in “Hombre”:

    “Why, should we follow you?”

    “Because I can cut it, lady.”

    This movie is a RP playbook, for those who are curious.

  13. I think that in the same way wives can sometimes feel like they are just maids and sex slaves, husbands can feel like they are just handymen and paychecks for their wives.

    I believe far too many Christian men feel trapped in these marriages either because they are afraid of divorce or because they have been wrongly taught that they cannot divorce their wives.

    The truth is that sexual denial goes to the core of the marriage. When there is sexual denial by a wife, it is never the only wrong behavior by her. It is usually just the tip of the iceberg her rebellious attitude toward her husband.

    I find that in most cases if a woman is fully submitting her body to her husband, then she is most likely fully submitting her mind as well.

    Men like this need to bring Godly discipline into their wives by rebuking their wives and then removing things like the ATM card to get their attention. If after rebuke and other discipline measures she remains in defiant rebellion a man can with a clear conscious divorce this woman for her sexual denial.

    But as I tell men all the time that email me – sometimes you have to be willing to loose your marriage in order to save it. You can’t be afraid of divorce – divorce exists because of sin and sometimes it is a tool we must use as weapon of last resort.

  14. Marigold, I think it’s risky to tell a virgin (Child of Ra) that sex shouldn’t be painful even the first time. It usually is, the hymen, if it’s still intact, really does rip and sex continues to hurt often for a few days afterward for a virgin because it’s as if the hymen is being worn down – literally disintegrating by being constantly rubbed up against an torn further. It’s not a horrible pain, but different women have different thickness of hymens. My own poor mom actually had such a ridiculously thick hymen, that she and my dad had to do other things on their wedding night (I’m sure you get the idea 😉 ) and got it surgically cut IMMEDIATELY before even doing any honeymoon related things lol. So sometimes it can be so painful that a “hymenectomy” is required.

    My point is, you just don’t know what every woman’s hymen is like, for even myself, I was virgin with my husband, and there was some pain with sex initially, and I was surprised that it lasted for a few days even afterward when we would continue having sex. But the pleasure of sex itself was far more than the pain for me. But it’s good for virgin women to know and not be shocked that there will be at least some pain initially… that way they aren’t turned off by it, can focus more on the pleasure, and KNOW that the pain should not last and will go away.

    It’s all part of using wisdom and knowledge to help daughters and sisters have a better view of sex and their own sexuality.

  15. There are other ways to satisfy a man besides p in v.

    My wife has repeatedly told me should would “make it up to you”. It’s never happened. What she does is allow me to have sex with her.

    It’s like she owes me money and to pay me back she is allowing me to work for her. Starfish sex on my initiation. If I don’t initiate it doesn’t happen. I can handle the starfish sex most of the time. What is so painful is that she says she’ll make it up, but never even tries. She asked me specifically what she could do and I told her. In April it will be 2 years since I told her what she could do. She’s only done it 7 times… bj. Her definition and my definition of more are quite different. She thinks we had sex 1-2 times per week last year. Wrong it was more like 34 times. I am 20 years in. I am in my early 40s. I have very very much to lose in a divorce, especially when my businesses are booming. If it wasn’t so painful I would cry, but laugh and resign myself to this is all I can muster. A couple of times I asked her when she would start making it up to me… OMG to think she would be accountable for something she said…

    And yes, if she wouldn’t have done something on wedding night… divorce.

    It’s utter nonsense to think she is too tired. I bet she could go all day, then spend all night with friends out dancing.

  16. Jeff, I haven’t ever asked you before I think, but have you tried Larry’s steps to confronting a wife on her attitude toward sex (attitude can be just as much a rejection in my opinion).

    It is true that showing love through actions is good, her not denying you is good! But a person’s intentions in their heart also matters, and if our heart isn’t involved in something as personal as sex, it reduces it to just sex and not emotional connection. I know that’s extremely painful for a husband – you don’t want starfish sex because you don’t like feeling as though you’re using her body right? You want to feel desired by her, like she desires you, you probably want her to initiate sex with you. I think it’s good that you want these things… it’d be sad if you DIDN’T want to be closer to her, to connect with her when you have sex.

    Starfish sex is really pretty cruel. It shuts a husband out from a woman’s inner spirit and is basically like she’s saying, “You can use my body, but I’m not giving you the real me!”

    I hope she comes to see this so that you both can have real oneness, praying for her to see it would also be helpful here.

    As far as oral sex, some women (to my understanding) just don’t like it, or have a skewed view of it being dirty or “slutty.” I think it’s wholesome act and great for wives to use to make love to their husbands, but some women have a sexual hangup here. Do you think your wife feels like it’s degrading or dirty?

    A REALLY really good book for that topic is “Sex Begins in the Kitchen… Keeping Sex in the Bedroom is just so tame!” by Kevin Leman. He really hits hard on the topic of oral sex, different positions, etc. not being bad or dirty or slutty – he helps women to have a better view of sex – a pure view of it.

  17. Dragonfly,

    I have never had a problem confronting issues. We have hashed it out so many times. Bjs had never been a problem in the past. I have never prompted her to do that, she just did it. When she started becoming the “submissive ” “respectful” wife she stopped for a couple of years. Not really that big of a deal. She calls starfish sex ‘quickies’ and she says she is ok with many of those.

    It goes back to so much crap. If I knew she respected me and found me desirable I could handle starfish sex and 1 enthusiastic time per month, but how she treated me for so long. When I slight her or she slights me or I feel as though she is slighted, I will not initiate even for starfish.

    I do not like that book. We have read it two times. Once long ago when I was blue pill and fell for all that crap. Again when our blue pill pastor recommended and I just couldn’t finish it. I did XYZ from that book so many times and it came to nothing. She did none of the recommended for the wife. Twice in our marriage she said if she comes to bed in a specific nighty or naked than I should initiate. Well, even when she came to bed naked and I initiated she rejected me saying she should be able to come to bed any way she wants and I shouldn’t expect it. Of course this was before she came to me and confessed her sin of abandoning me sexually. But since that time the only thing that changed was her initially still rejecting me on and off for a couple of years to not making herself available for a while and now available but starfish sex most of the time. Believe me when I tell you I have tried tackling this from many angles.

  18. Dragonfly- Great blog, should be required reading for young women.

    Something that helps explain why SOME women “change” their sexual appetite after they marry:
    http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/birth-control-pills-affect-womens-taste/

    The summary: If she was on the pill when you met, and was hot for you, when she goes off the pill, her body will be physically repelled by you. She will feel like she is kissing (or screwing) her brother.

    This is hard science, not opinion or feelings. This is FACT.

    Because the pill is such a sacred cow to feminists, this info will never be adequately covered in the government controlled media, because it proves conclusively that taking the pill sabotages a woman’s chances of choosing the right husband.

    Ignorance of this hard science has causes untold suffering by both women and men!

    So, if she is on the pill when you meet, she must STAY ON THE PILL during the course of your relationship. If she went off so that she could conceive, she needs to GO BACK ON IT after the birth, or her desire for you will not return.

    Of course, it is FAR better to find a woman who is not on the pill, and not having premarital sex and marry her.

    Then your wife’s libido will not be hostage to a drug company.

    Jeff- I was once in a marriage like yours. You create your own suffering by tolerating this situation. Read the link I posted above – Does it apply to you? If so, ask her to make a change. If not, then your hands are tied.

    Bottom line: If she will not change her behavior willingly, then you MUST end the relationship. Period.

    Get a divorce/annulment and find your true wife. She is waiting out there for you.

    I did.

    It will not be easy. It will be worth it.

  19. Jeff, I looked into that book online more, I think I suggested the wrong book (ugh!) . I believe I was thinking of Sheet Music. It’s been like 8 years since I’ve read these books, but Kevin Leman really covers the oral sex, different positions, etc. that men (and women) enjoy so much. I guess if you’ve read his other book twice, you probably read this one too. I’m so sorry she won’t try to compromise or listen to the suggestions in these books. Both spouses have to put in effort to create a beautiful marriage and sex life.

    I liked Seriously Serving’s joke on Dalrock’s… you could always try smashing some of your china like the Keller woman’s “godly tantrum.” lol But something tells me it wouldn’t work out the same way if a husband tried that.

  20. She want on the pill when we met. Sheet music starts with sex starts in the kitchen. It is chalk full of choreplay for the man, which any husband will tell you doesnt work.

  21. Right, I don’t believe choreplay works either. If anything, the studies have shown it just decreases sexual desire in a wife… even though it’s referred to as “husband porn.”

    Baron – Welcome to the blog and thank you for the compliment. It is my target to reach young women with this stuff, in hopes that they can have a wonderful marriage and good life pursuing things that really matter!

    I’ve heard that about the birth control pill… but I haven’t read up on it much to decide what I really think about it. I went on the pill when we got married – a month before really – and didn’t notice those changes personally. We were waiting to have sex until marriage, so there were no changes from before to after really. We did mess up, but it was close to the wedding and I think circumstances (me being kicked out for one) made it more tempting. But as far as the pill affecting our sex life that first 2 years I was on it or afterwards, there was no noticeable difference to either of us. We had and still have, a very high frequency sex life of 6 to 7x a week, and it’s been like that for 8 years. We both still strongly desire each other.

  22. I have seen references to the birth control effect before, and there may indeed be something there. But the Scientific American article is IMO an example of a very irritating trend in popular science coverage…there are a lot of phrases like “more likely” and “less desirable,” but I didn’t see a single number. Obviously, if the effects are on the order of 3%, then they are basically trivial compared with other factors, but if they are on the order of 30%, that’s something else again.

    Actual data is probably available in the actual research paper, for those who want to dig it out (and quite likely pay for it), but I think the media does us all a bad turn when publishing scientific “conclusions” without any real indication of their strength.

  23. Dave, are you giving women an excuse or just introducing evolutionary principles in a christian worldview blog. It doesnt matter if a wife ate smarties earlier in the marriage. She is an adult with a brain and can make decisions based on what scripture (God) commands. If its anything else she is in sin.

  24. Jeff, I am responding to earlier suggestion about the implications of birth control pills for female attraction patterns, and attempting to help shed light on whether the effect is real/important or not.

    Not a Christian myself, but I think I have a reasonably decent understanding of the religion, and I don’t see anything in it that would establish that chemical phenomena can never effect human behavior. Pretty sure that people in biblical times were familiar with drunkenness and its effects.

    And no, the existence of chemical effects on behavior does not remove moral responsibility. If you get drunk and kill someone while driving, you are still guilty of manslaughter. But if there were people in the world who were *not* familiar with the effects of alcohol…say it had been just recently introduced, as in the case of some American Indian tribes…it would be doing them no favor to refrain from discussing those effects with them.

  25. Jeff,

    I know you are angry. So was I.

    My ex-wife told me that she “would rather have her arms and legs cut off” than have sex with me again.
    This was after 3 years of heavy sexual interest on her part.
    What changed was that she had bad menstrual periods and her doctor put her on the pill to regulate them.
    She had never been on the pill before then (we used condoms.)
    Sex went from 3x a week to 1x a week to never, in the course of a year.
    And when I confronted her about it, she said what I wrote above. And she didn’t cry, or even apologize.

    But inside, I was destroyed.

    After feeling sorry for myself for a few days, I stopped complaining about the way I wanted things to be, and dealt with the way they were — I moved out two months later. It was hard. But my life is so much better.

    What will your wife have to say to you before you decide enough is enough?

    Bottom line — When the sex ends, the marriage ends.

    You need to get your mind right and move on.

    Only you can end your suffering.

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