Advice For the Wife Who Doesn’t Love Her Husband Anymore

Many people get married for the wrong reasons… be it to get away from their parents, because they want to avoid being alone (aka: they’re not comfortable enough on their own as an adult so they want to codependently live with another), they are pregnant, or they are 29 and don’t want to be that single person still in their 30’s.

I’d say that women are more prone to marrying for the wrong reasons, but I’ve heard of many men doing it too.  Regardless, once a person is married, it’s my belief that they should do whatever they have to do to love that person that they chose, and to actively work together with them to embrace the life they’ve chosen.  And make it into the most beautiful life they can together.

This short clip from Dr. Laura’s old radio show touches all the key points of a wife, after 14 years of marriage, deciding that she never loved her husband to begin with, and that she just doesn’t have those feelings towards him of being sexually attracted or emotionally in love.

Nevermind they have 3 kids together… kids that depend upon their parent’s ability to love each other and make a marriage work.  She just “never loved him” to begin with.

How convenient.

For you singles in the dating market, beware of someone marrying you just because it’s the right thing to do.  Or because they’re afraid to be an old maid (they’re 29 about to hit 30 soon).  They are settling for you, and you will someday wake up next to them to find a wife that no longer wants sex with you, that tells you that they never did love you.

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47 thoughts on “Advice For the Wife Who Doesn’t Love Her Husband Anymore

  1. “For you singles in the dating market, beware of someone marrying you just because it’s the right thing to do. Or because they’re afraid to be an old maid (they’re 29 about to hit 30 soon).”

    What is frustrating in the manosphere is on one hand they tell women to hurry up and marry before you hit the wall at 30 and become a dried up spinster, but then after a woman does just that–hurries up and settled into something she might not want and was never attracted to in the first place, then the men lambast her settling. You just can’t win. One thing they don’t take into account much is how strong the biological urge is for women to have children. A lot of women just hurry up and marry cause the baby rabies is just that strong. I have no clue how women can get around that. How they can avoid settling, but also find the man they are extremely attracted to all in a limited number of years.

    Is it better for a woman to settle so she can assure that she will be able to have kids in time or is it better to hold out for what you are attracted to but then with that comes the chance that you can never have kids?

    Related:
    https://unmaskingfeminism.wordpress.com/2013/12/30/should-a-girl-marry-from-a-sense-of-duty-advice-from-1918/

  2. You could tell she really despised her husband despite all her words about ‘fixing the marriage’. It is also not surprising that Linda showed absolutely no regard for the welfare of her three children. I feel sorry for her children to be born to such a terrible and selfish mother. Tragic.

    Nice post girlwithadragonflytatoo.

  3. That’s a really great question. Honestly, it’s better to wait until after 30 if need be.

    But having at least 10 good years to find someone should really be enough in my opinion. An article Andrew (from the Rules Revisited website) describes “girl game” for each age group. A girl in her teens needs to be experimenting with her looks and trying to maximize as much as possible, her personal beauty and figure out her own personal style – whatever that may be. In her early 20’s, this should be becoming more and more fine tuned, and her beauty should be flourishing as she really works whatever she has. All this is in order to attract as many prospective guys as possible for her to be able to choose wisely from. It works great, I’ve experienced it personally myself. There’s nothing quite like maximizing your personal beauty, personality, and flirting with as many guys as possible – having an almost endless supply of guys attracted to you. The harder part is finding the best one that will also be marriageable in the next couple of years. Most of the younger 20’s guys are just there in college to mess around with as many girls as possible, but if you find an older guy, or just a more mature guy who has been with enough girls to know he wants a special one (to marry) – a marriage minded guy – that’s when you get into a relationship that’s headed towards a potential marriage.

    Obviously it doesn’t always work this way, most girls truly aren’t maximizing their beauty, or they may even be undermining it by not being in the best shape possible. There are so many that do this, and then they wonder why they can’t get guys to look twice at them, or constantly get low value men after them. And I get it… it’s hard and complicated… that’s why it’s basically “girl game.” It’s a game plan. I was lucky my mom was so in tune to this kind of thing… I was listening to Dr. Laura when I was extremely young (maybe 8?), so I was constantly exposed to marriage issues, particularly, the plight of men.

    But feminism has made it hard on women as well. It tells girls that guys should love them for what’s on the inside, but the cold hard reality is that men are visual, and women NEED to be as attractive as possible in order to find a suitable husband. But hypothetically, this is how it should “work.” There are MANY available men – but only if you are maximizing your beauty and developing a warm, engaging and fun personality.

    What I’ve mostly seen happen for women who aren’t married by 30 is that they either have an unfeminine or unpleasant personality, are too overweight to find someone that they like (a man who isn’t overweight himself usually), or are too inhibited and shy to understand how to flirt and interact with guys (socially awkward). These are the women I see past 30 that still aren’t married – there are some that don’t fit any of that though, but they make up a very tiny %.

    For the ones that do decide to settle, they simply shouldn’t. There is no reason why they shouldn’t bite the bullet and wait until their 30’s. The fear of turning into a pumpkin old maid at 30 is just ridiculous. Usually, the women who are past 30 and still single, are women who made the mistake of staying too long in a bad (or simply non-committal) relationship. They wasted their 20’s either not caring to find a spouse (to get serious about it), focusing on their career (or in the past it would be an aging parent), or they were extremely picky and wanted someone that was far above their own SMV (an overweight girl or otherwise non-maximizing her personal beauty girl desiring a hawt alpha or even beta that doesn’t know she exists). I’ve seen that a lot in social groups… the girl is fantasizing about a guy way out of her league, and not doing anything at all to get even remotely close to his league… its very sad, because she could EASILY drop any extra weight, make herself insanely attractive, and catch someone (maybe not that one particular “one”) but someone just as good looking that she’d be happy with. Since this particular woman is extremely hard to please in the looks department, if she settles for less than handsome prince charming, she will be unhappy in her future marriage.

    There are also some women who for whatever reason do just wait a very long time. Maybe they don’t feel emotionally mature enough (which is smart that they realize this), but while they were “waiting,” they certainly weren’t passively waiting… they were maximizing their emotional intelligence, developing a beautiful personality (inner beauty), and working on a physical attractiveness to be even more so than some women in their 20’s! This is rarer though, and these are most often the quiet, shy, beautiful women who simply lack confidence to wield their powerful beauty in engaging men. I’ve seen these sweet wonderful types get married later, and still find happiness. They are less concerned with a man’s looks, and can find intense happiness with a guy overweight and balding – so long as he is hilarious, kind, and confident (sexy).

    So a gorgeous +30 woman is still marketable, it is harder because the pool of men gets smaller, but it isn’t as hard as 40 or 50 is.

    Then you have the men… they really do settle too. They also have fears of being alone all their life, and will enter into marriages they have doubts about willingly. Sometimes men even marry women they are only marginally attracted to, because they are low value themselves (overweight and unmotivated in life in general), but that’s I think probably a super tiny %
    Most that settle fear the lifelong loneliness or were given the ultimatum by their girlfriend they weren’t that crazy about to begin with. Some lack self-confidence to find someone they’re really highly attracted to… so once they’re married, these men often have problems with porn or with feeling like they want to cheat (Rollo writes about this). Sometimes they get married too soon (loneliness fear or ultimatum), and haven’t experienced enough women in relationships to even UNDERSTAND what they’d really desire in a life-long partner… that is settling in my book.

    And yes, you can probably tell that I think WAY too much about these things. :/

  4. Right? Isn’t it just typical manosphere script?

    It’s just sad that this is not uncommon… at all! This I’m afraid, is becoming more and more normal… that’s why there are so many sexless marriages (or passionless marriages shall I say?), and divorces. It’s because of this kind of behavior from women.

    Over 70% of divorces are initiated by the woman.

  5. You cannot simply decide you have never loved your husband…after 14 years. That is just ridiculous. I really don’t believe this woman married from the wrong reasons, I think she’s just all confused and being selfish.

    There’s an old Stephan Stills song I still love, called “Love the One You’re With.”

    I’m trying to think of what my husband would have said if I were that wife. I think he would have said, “so what? You aren’t required to love me, just to respect me.” That is the attitude held by many couples who have been married 50-60 years, too. Some days you may just not be “feeling the love,” but you are married, it is a commitment, a covenant.

    I tend to be madly in love most days, head in the clouds in love some 30 years later, but there have been a few days in the past when I sure wasn’t feeling it. They pass.

  6. @lgrobins

    There is no such thing as ‘settling’ once the choice is made to marry and have children. The collective good of the family subordinates any individual desire, lust, or need for external ego kibbles. If a woman feels she is settling then her marriage is doomed before it starts.

    Commit totally or not at all.

    Men and Women have biological urges to reproduce but having urges doesn’t entitle you to a marriage or children. Many men never father children; as a whole 80% of all women who ever lived have reproduced while maybe 40% of men. Life isn’t always fair.

    If a woman can’t find a husband; then maybe she needs to do some serious self-reflection and soul searching.

  7. Married people are indeed a shrinking minority in this country. They might end up on the ‘endangered species’ list given the decrease of marriages and frequency of divorce.

  8. Why don’t you believe she married for the wrong reasons? Insanity… I’ve seen friends stay in relationships they should have gotten out of like 3 months in. I’ve seen them marry boyfriends they weren’t even sexually attracted to. I’ve seen them marry guys they couldn’t say they “loved” for years into the relationship… until suddenly (right before turning 29-30, they “know” they “love” him). Women marry all the time for the wrong reasons (security being the main one because that could mean various things like they don’t want to be alone, they want a life partner, or that they want to be taken care of by a husband in life), but while they’re doing this, they are great at convincing themselves that they aren’t settling, that its what they’re “supposed” to do and that they are undoubtedly doing the right thing, making the right choices. It’s only after several years of a mediocre marriage, and bearing children that they fully realize their unhappiness with their choices in life, realize the REAL reason they got married (security anyone?), and then drop the bomb on their unsuspecting husband that they “never did love him.”

    Happens all the time.

  9. “Why don’t you believe she married for the wrong reasons?”

    Well, because people marry for the “wrong” reasons all the time and they have great success. It’s not the marriage that is wrong or the reasons for it, it’s the woman herself.

    There’s nothing wrong with marrying for “security” for example. What’s wrong is failing to hold up your end of the deal and then trying to blame your choice on your husband.

    Here you said, “It’s only after several years of a mediocre marriage….” I really believe a “mediocre marriage” is entirely the fault of those within it. So “married for the wrong reasons” becomes just another excuse, a way of avoiding personal responsibility for yourself and your marriage.

  10. I don’t think Dr Laura’s question of “did you tell him that?” is necessarily the crisis point. It can easily come before that.

    I think she can say “I don’t love you or want you, only what you can give me” by her actions, whether she’s realized it yet or not.

    What about when the husband realizes things first? When he realizes that her actions have been saying that, even if she doesn’t yet realize her decision to “settle” for him?

    It’s not any less painful to realize that your wife is just saying that with her actions rather than her words.

    How could such a marriage proceed? Could it even be fixed? I wonder if that’s one of the reasons for those marriages would limp along until the children grew up, or if they were worth it. Don’t kids need not just parents, but parents who love each other?

  11. You’re right, the crisis moment can be at different times for either partner. A wife never need tell her husband that she “never loved him,” in order for him to realize that the marriage is in crisis. Years of sexual denial or frustrating duty sex from her can finally culminate in a crisis for him. But that would take a lot longer than her just being in touch with her “feelings” and telling him 14 years in that she never loved him. The former scenario of a sexless marriage usually plays on until the couple is much older, and have 20-25 years of marriage underway. That kind of crisis may even be harder to overcome… or easier since he saw it coming? I’m not sure.

    And yes, CD, kids desperately need parents who love each other and have a passionate sex life together. They need parents that are sexually fulfilled by each other, not a husband who has a porn addiction because his wife doesn’t meet his needs at a very deep (Madonna/Whore) level. They need parents who display their love and passion to each other through pursuing each other (seducing like in Song of Solomon), who are completely vulnerable in their passions together and enjoy that vulnerability.

    That is a healthy marriage.

    That is a marriage where children will grow and flourish under their parents very real, tangible love and affection.

  12. “It’s not the marriage that is wrong or the reasons for it, it’s the woman herself.”

    You’re right, and Dr. Laura points it out in that the woman cannot (is not capable) of seeing what she has – all her blessings! She really could make it a beautiful, amazing and fulfilling marriage, and instead she’s choosing to narrow her focus onto the fact that she merely married for security. It’s a cop-out so that she doesn’t have to do the hard work of learning how to truly love a person.

  13. Agreed. I think what annoys me the most about this case is that we all marry for “security,” in terms of having children. Is that not what men provide there, protection and provision? So love in that case actually becomes a verb, something expressed through actions. She’s spent 14 years in marriage, had children, reaped all the benefits of that security…and now declares that she married for the “wrong reasons.” Especially cruel to now claim she never really loved her husband.

  14. Well, marrying solely for security is actually what a lot of women do… I’m witnessing this even currently in my personal life. They justify it frontwards and backwards, but they are truly marrying without the raw sexual desire that should be there when choosing a life partner and (who expects) a fulfilling sex life from that woman. So marrying solely for security is tricking the man… that’s what makes men (especially in the manosphere) so angry. They find out they were completely lied to, quite literally defrauded, that they were her “Plan B” if she couldn’t lock down some sexy alpha she secretly pinned for. It’s manosphere cliche.

  15. Since LGrobins creates a straw man it’s probably pointless to respond, but what the ‘manosphere’ suggests is that women not indulge in party-time sexual profligacy and choose a man of virtue and strength, in order to build a family, a legacy, and an unshakeable place in the world.

    But LGrobins thinks women are victimized by competing expectations.

    The idea that ‘settling’ is a dating and marriage dynamic advised by anybody is absurd. The concept just exaggerates the contemporary ethos of feminine entitlement. Someone always has a bigger house, bigger plane, bigger bank account. Who cares? Only the entitled, delusional, and solipsistic.

  16. “….but they are truly marrying without the raw sexual desire that should be there when choosing a life partner..”

    Oh, I see, You’re right, that is a manopshere trope and I do empathize with men who feel as if they were deceived, as if they were played.

    My views on “raw sexual desire” are a bit different, I guess. I really do believe desire is a case of mind over matter, of psychology, behavior, and cause and effect, not just “magic” that arises from chemistry or pheromones. So while many in the manosphere tend to believe desire cannot be negotiated, I believe it can and it is somewhat flexible.

    I do understand how that truth could feel like a huge blow to male pride, because everyone wants to believe their spouse is just sexually enamored with them, but in truth there is a lot more going on there for both men and women.

  17. “Marrying for security” is a euphemism that only women use. It means, “I married him for money and leisure time. Plus sperm, because I want my children born within wedlock.”

    How many men do we know who say they “married for security”?

    Linda, the life-denying narcissistic bitch who called up Dr. Laura, desperate for her get-out-of-marriage card, wanted two things out of that call: a) calming praise for doing so much “work” to salvage her marriage (which was not work at all, just box-checking so that she could tell everyone she knows how hard she tried to save her family); and b) absolution for ruining her husband and children’s lives.

    I loved her self-righteous and dismissive paragraph on their sex life.

    She’s just another Eat Pray Love acolyte who is desperate for social ratification of her childish self-love. Not one word emerged from her complaints that reflected an iota of concern for her children and her man.

  18. IB22 apparently has dated and lived with a lot of women, because she knows how they respond to men in intimate situations so well. This surprises me, given the avowed “Biblical” perspective she offers the world. But hey, most chicks have an underlying bisexuality.

    It would be helpful, though, if she would explain how desire is successfully negotiated, and which “behaviors” induce feminine desire in faux-Biblical women where none otherwise exists. While I presume it means that a man will get occasional duty sex if he takes out the garbage or issues a “wife bonus” or otherwise does what he’s told, presumptuousness is such an unattractive quality. Let’s just say that “Of course desire may be negotiated” is neither a tautology nor a compelling argument.

    Likewise, it would be helpful to learn how performing to please a woman is both good for a man’s self-respect, and healthy for a relationship. Perhaps she means that faux-Biblical Women require personal worship, an idea well proven in American churchian culture.

    Last, it would be helpful to learn how men should deal with what she calls the great “blow to male pride” when they learn their wives are not interested in them as men. (The poor, immature dears.) Evidently she considers spousal disinterest a virtue, and we are all interested in being more virtuous, but again she cheats us by not providing observation or logic in support of anything she states.

  19. Okay, in response to Buena Vista who chose to completely misunderstand me:

    “While I presume it means that a man will get occasional duty sex if he takes out the garbage or issues a “wife bonus….”

    As in the nature of presumptions, you presume wrong. I would like everyone to enjoy great and frequent sex.

    “It would be helpful, though, if she would explain how desire is successfully negotiated, and which “behaviors” induce feminine desire….”

    Desire is negotiated within women’s own minds. Our brains are our largest sex organs. We have huge influence over our own desire and triggers, once we understand them. Desire can be successfully negotiated, by helping her to understand them, by taking some leadership there, and by making sure she is aware that you have an expectation of great sex.

    “Last, it would be helpful to learn how men should deal with what she calls the great “blow to male pride” when they learn their wives are not interested in them as men.”

    By attempting to stop personalizing everything, to set aside some pride, and to try and empathize with things from a woman’s perspective. To place the responsibility on her rather then taking great offense. She is not “rejecting you as a man,” she is likely lost and confused about her own psychology and sexuality. Often women need some help untangling it themselves.

    Women are not like men at all. Often men either marry completely inexperienced virgins and then expect her to be experienced and fully understand her own sexuality or else they marry women who have a lot of experience, but have been totally misled, broken, and confused by the cultural messages at large.

  20. Wow. I feel so badly for this person’s husband. 😦
    “Guess what, I never loved you and our entire marriage has been an act of calculated fraud on my part.”
    That’s grounds for annulment. But in the current legal environment he wouldn’t have custody of his children, most likely.

    What is the point of even one minute of therapy after something like that, let alone 17 months’ worth of it? What exactly is supposed to happen there?

  21. “What about when the husband realizes things first? When he realizes that her actions have been saying that, even if she doesn’t yet realize her decision to “settle” for him?

    It’s not any less painful to realize that your wife is just saying that with her actions rather than her words.”

    I’m sure (love being a verb, not just an emotion) her actions through the years have revealed her true thoughts on the matter. But hearing that stated outright has to be irreparably hurtful nonetheless.

    There’s simply no way to go back from that. There is nothing she can say to undo it, and every time she touches him from now on he is going to assume she is faking interest for some ulterior motive.

  22. Just add: “every time she touches him from now on he is going to assume she is faking interest for some ulterior motive.”

    Even hypothetically if he’s thoroughly convinced (however unlikely), just placing myself in this guy’s position I’d probably only feel bitter in response. Is he supposed to feel grateful? This is so awful, it’s worse than infidelity.

  23. IB22 ups the ante: instead of a straw man, now she launches her paragraphs with an ad hominem. This manner of discussion was drilled out of me by 8th grade.

    You realize, IB, that when people read your own words back to you, you’re being understood, not “misunderstood”? Because words have common meaning.

    Anyway, any man who listens to IB, and I doubt there are any, will simply learn: “I am a woman, so I am a victim because I ‘have been totally misled, broken, and confused by the cultural messages at large.'” Because women aren’t responsible for their own behavior — because they don’t understand their own behavior: “Desire can be successfully negotiated, by helping her to understand them …” Because a Real Man does things a woman doesn’t understand or cannot define, but make her feel good — so then he will experience Real Love: “We have huge influence over our own desire and triggers, once we understand them. Desire can be successfully negotiated, by helping her to understand them …”

    “I am only happy if you make me happy, so make me happy. No, there isn’t a manual. Set aside your pride, sinful, selfish man. Because only men know what they want or why, so only women can decide if a man makes her feel good about herself. I am a Biblical Woman, so disagreement is sin against Our Lord.”

  24. Therapy’s purpose in these situations: emotional window dressing for the spouse who wants out, and has already checked out, but wants to say “I really tried.”

    It’s the same thing as this chick proudly telling Laura she read books and went to web sites: she’s saying, “I’m a good person, I’m really trying, tell me how to dump this guy and terminate this family such that I get kudos.” She’s trolling for “you’re so evolved and empowered” compliments. It’s harder to find those compliments if, in truth, you’re a loathsome animal.

    The husband is responsible, though, as well for attending 17 months of “how do you feel” sessions. We’re talking about a broken, desperate and frightened man, here.

  25. “I am a woman, so I am a victim because I ‘have been totally misled, broken, and confused by the cultural messages at large.’” Because women aren’t responsible for their own behavior —”

    Not at all, in fact the precise opposite. I think it is way past time for women to stop being victims and to take responsibility for both their marriages and their sexuality. That is my whole point, we have huge influence, and if our own marriage is mediocre, who’s fault is that?

    “Set aside your pride, sinful, selfish man.”

    No, not because it is a “sin,” but because pride causes one a great deal of pain. One tends to take things personally, which hurts, which then leads to contempt and separation. Within marriage the goal is connection and respect, pretty much the opposite of pride.

    “I am a Biblical Woman, so disagreement is sin against Our Lord.”

    Not at all. Men should be encouraged to disagree when they disagree, with the full mercy and grace of our Lord backing them up.

  26. “By attempting to stop personalizing everything, to set aside some pride, and to try and empathize with things from a woman’s perspective. To place the responsibility on her rather then taking great offense. She is not “rejecting you as a man,” she is likely lost and confused about her own psychology and sexuality. ”

    Wow! I do hope you are not talking in general about women like Linda in the audio clip. What kind of human being would not personalize being told what she told him? How could they possibly not be offended or “take great offense” ??

    She IS rejecting him as a man! Completely emasculating him and undermining his confidence.

    The reason why she was reading tons of books, searching the internet, and going to counseling with her husband was exactly what Buena Vista said… to find a rationalization in order to blow up her marriage now that she’s tired of playing pretend.

    Think on this: all those years they spent married together, having 3 children, those were her years of negotiating her desire… and you know what? It always seems to fall short.

  27. “Likewise, it would be helpful to learn how performing to please a woman is both good for a man’s self-respect, and healthy for a relationship. ”

    Right… it really is unhealthy… like he’s some kind of pet or something that is supposed to behave well or he doesn’t get that special treat (sex). Eventually after years of marriage, the wife doesn’t feel like doing it anymore, meanwhile she hasn’t been turned on by him since he started acting like a damn dog.

    Meeting expectations or carrying the “burden of performance” is one thing because its part of a man becoming his own master or a partner in a reciprocal relationship where the woman is also holding up her end. Reciprocal love and kindness… respect.

  28. I wonder how much marriage therapy actually does work. Even with spouses who have sexual hang-ups and things like that… do they ever really figure their issues out?

    Reading the Dead Bedrooms reddit site, I cannot believe how many people resolve themselves to years and years of dealing with their partner’s issues involving sex and affection. Can a dead bedroom ever really be fixed? Can a “low libido” woman (or man) ever find the will to meet the need of the “high libido” partner?

  29. “What kind of human being would not personalize being told what she told him?”

    One capable of surrendering their pride? When one lets go of pride, they also let go of the shame that goes along with it.

    It is the same thing I would tell a woman who is hurt and offended by an affair, for example. It may be perfectly valid and justified to be hurt, offended, your pride and shame pricked, but those who wish to heal and make a go of it, must set down their pride, humble themselves, and seek reconciliation.

    The alternative is to remain walled off by pride, angry, and full of contempt, something much of the mansophere chooses to do instead.

    Absolutely no one can ever heal properly without letting go of pride.

  30. I have only seen it “work” where one or the other spouse effectively capitulates to the other; the spouse demanding the therapy secures an ally (as this caller to Laura was calling to secure an ally in her rejection of her husband), and either terminates the relationship or completely subordinates the other spouse.

    Also, I’ve never met a single man who asked his wife to go to marriage therapy.

    “Low libido” is a scam papering over “low attraction” or “active dislike” or “I just realized I never loved you” or “sex is just something men do and women receive” delusions.

  31. “It is the same thing I would tell a woman who is hurt and offended by an affair, for example. It may be perfectly valid and justified to be hurt, offended, your pride and shame pricked, but those who wish to heal and make a go of it, must set down their pride, humble themselves, and seek reconciliation.”

    That might or might not be a proper comparison, Insanitybites.
    Here are a couple of different scenarios:
    1) Man (or woman) cheats and the spouse finds out. The wronged spouse is devastated and the cheating spouse shows a great amount of contrition and regret and vows to never do that again.

    2) Man (or woman) cheats and is caught and instead of showing contritition and regret for the harm inflicted on the wronged spouse, the person cheating explains, “I’ve never loved you anyway.”

    Scenario 1 is fixable because the cheating spouse still loves and values the injured spouse. There is fixing scenario number 2, no was to get beyond that. That’s the scenario we’re dealing with here. The cheating itself is a symptom, not the problem…heck, most likely the woman in question here has cheated and if she hasn’t it is only because it has been inconvenient or she can’t find the “right one” to cheat with.

  32. Just to add, I would agree that pride could cause harm in a type of case where reconciliation is possible, and both spouses love and value each other. However, if one spouse is unloved and unvalued (the case here) pride would be the only thing that could save him, psychologically. The alternative, sacrificing his pride (which actually seems to be the choice he has made if they’ve been through 17 months of therapy) is completely disempowering and demeaning to him. And she’ll only despise him more for it.

  33. I think I look at this less from a point of “pride” as self-respect.
    A person should never lose his or her self-respect.
    That isn’t a necessary part of healing or forgiveness, IMO.

  34. “I think I look at this less from a point of “pride” as self-respect. A person should never lose his or her self-respect. That isn’t a necessary part of healing or forgiveness, IMO.”

    Liz, self respect is already gone after 14 years. At this point people either let go of their pride and work towards reconciliation or they let go of their pride and forgive themselves for their failure to make it work.

    It doesn’t matter if someone is a victim of crime or a victim of marriage, we do people no favors by encouraging their resentment and bitterness. That is what is all over not only feminism, but the manosphere.

  35. That makes sense BV. The “low libido” in the DB reddit sometimes will actually end up cheating on their HL partner, totally taking away any excuse that they weren’t “into sex” …. They simply were not into sex with their HL partner!

  36. I have to disagree.

    When a man is hurt and rejected for years by the woman he promised his life to, and ends up losing his self-respect as a result, he has little to no reason to keep trying to “make the marriage work.” Your insistence otherwise is really just a repeat of the cultural admonitions to men that they should “Man up”, or in other words, Shut up, submit to his wife, and deal with the fact that men mean little more than their ability to provide to her satisfaction.

    Sure, there’s resentment and bitterness in the manosphere, from many men who have suffered such situations, and who found the only possible reasons for continuing to try after years of failed attempts were their religious beliefs or their kids. Is it really that unreasonable for men to feel resentful and bitter when they are told by the people they love that they aren’t worth being loved? When men are constantly faced with attempts to shame them into accepting a that they’re not men, but common beasts of burden?

    Perhaps the one who should be getting lectured about needing to let go of their pride (and selfishness, as Dr Laura put it) is the the ungrateful woman who doesn’t love her husband, rather than the men who spend years trying to “make the marriage work” despite their wives actions and words against it.

  37. I don’t think IBB is really trying to understand anything from a man’s point of view… only from a woman’s point of view, otherwise she should easily see everything you just wrote, and be capable of understanding it.

  38. “Is it really that unreasonable for men to feel resentful and bitter when they are told by the people they love that they aren’t worth being loved?”

    Of course it is not unreasonable. It is not unreasonable for someone living in a worn country or a crime victim to feel resentful and bitter either. The problem is, when we allow bitterness and resentment to consume us, we are the one who loses. We are the ones who suffer the most.

    “Perhaps the one who should be getting lectured about needing to let go of their pride (and selfishness, as Dr Laura put it) is the the ungrateful woman who doesn’t love her husband..”

    Fine, but than you hand your power away and put this woman in charge of your own healing. Hell could freeze over before she learned to let go of her own pride.

  39. Good post. Two quick thoughts. (1) Marriage is about falling in love with the same person every day for the rest of your life. Love is a choice, not indigestion. And (2) scientists have linked a change in birth control habits to a change in sexual satisfaction within relationships. Would not surprise me if this were the case.

    I’ve found Dr. Laura’s advice over the years to be heroic, and sorely missing in the rest of society.

  40. Pingback: Advice For the Wife Who Doesn’t Love Her… | Honor Dads

  41. In the discussion above you refer to the fact that children need parents who are passionate, pursue each other, and have a fulfilling sexual relationship. What would you say to the couple who who has tried, but doesn’t? Maybe they did marry for the wrong reasons, or have become such different people that they can’t come together any more? Is it better to limp along as a shell marriage “just for the kids” or better to go your separate ways in the hopes of being healthy on your own so that your children can see that you don’t have to stay in a “shell” of a relationship if it’s not healthy?

  42. Women don’t tend to love the men they convince to marry them. Once he agrees to marry, she loses all respect for him, as under Western traditions she rules the roost. He is expected to follow her orders and to accept whatever perquisites (especially sexual ones) she deems him deserving to receive. He isn’t allowed to complain or retaliate, for he doesn’t have the support base of married friends to fall back upon, who will ruin his reputation if he tries.

    The only recourse men have until women change their attitudes is to not marry at all.

  43. Blurkel, your comment got lost somehow! It’s a great comment. I agree with you that marriage isn’t a good option for many men due to women now not understanding how to be a good, loving, kind-hearted wife toward their husband.

    1) Men used to hold a position of honor – their strength and masculinity was respected and honored by default. Now it’s routinely ridiculed, despised, and we have high profile women in the media telling all men to just “shut the hell up!”

    2) There’s very little honor in fatherhood now. You constantly see dads as being the buffoons who don’t know what they’re doing, or the wife complaining that they don’t help enough when the man already works 40+ hrs/wk and she’s a homemaker (stay at home mom). Fathers aren’t really respected as much as they used to be – but are looked upon as annoying or another “chore” she has to put up with, and (for single moms) not even necessary anymore. What value does masculinity have?

    3) Most men marry in part so that they can have a promised sexual outlet and sexual relationship. This is especially true of Christian men who are told their whole life that married sex is the best and only sex available for them. But when they get married and have children, they find that their wives do not hold up this promise to meet their sexual needs. So they feel like they fell for a lie and are trapped. Studies show that a hefty percentage of married women (US women) would rather be doing almost anything, even housework, than having sex with their husband!!! So that guarantee of a good sex life just by getting married is no longer true for men.

    4) And you’re right, Blurkel, men cannot complain about any of this or else he’ll be labeled a bigot, misogynist, bitter male.

    So what do we have left?

    No more honor for being a man who works hard and is good, men are in general not respected as they used to be. No more real honor in fatherhood unless he has a found a special wife that actually holds him in high regard and adoration. No promise of a wife that will trust his leadership and make it easy to be his helper throughout their life and marriage. No promise of fulfilling sexual intimacy with his wife, but instead an unknown trap of sexual frustration and bitterness for the rest of his life. And he better not complain, because the world doesn’t want to hear about it.

  44. Thanks very much for your insight, Dragonfly. I’m in a 15-year blended family marriage that has turned sexless over the past five years. Our youngest of five (we had two each when we married) is in high school and seems to be the only thing holding it together. When we dated, we couldn’t have enough sex. It slowly began dwindling and turned to nothing for many reasons. Most of it is because of some resentment and her holding on to past issues that I’ve apologized for (nothing big like infidelity, mostly blended family issues), but she never forgave.

    We both work, although I’m the main provider and I’ve raised her kids like my own. One of my daughters has never been accepted by her, and has made several stupid mistakes and was recently kicked out of the house. She earned it, but there is absolutely no understanding on her part about the struggles the kid has, and instead says she will be the reason we get divorced. I’m not the divorcing type, my former wife cheated and I won custody of my two little girls and was a single Dad for five years before I met my current wife.

    I’ve done the best I can in supporting each of our kids and been involved in all of their activities. I’ve renovated the house to meet all of my wife’s wants and needs. I work close and have a flexible schedule to help pick up kids and get them where they need to be. Given them a stable home and Christian values. She is a cleaning machine, much more so than I, and I’ve learned to adjust to it and help when I can but she wants things a certain way and sometimes its just better to let her do it. She doesn’t cook much, and I pick up the slack and cook at least twice a week.

    I’ve stayed in reasonably good shape. I’ve told her that I want to have a more intimate relationship, one that includes spending time together, touching, sitting next to each other and yes, occasional sex. It really wouldn’t take much to make me happy and enhance the relationship. She is clinically depressed, has no family relationships to speak of, and spends most of her time watching Netflix or on social media or texting. We are both in our 50’s and she has been battling menopause for several years now. She finally has more balance thanks to a doctor I recommended, but somehow no matter what I do its never enough.

    She doesn’t really want to talk about things, doesn’t take any positions on politics or controversial issues and mostly spends 5-10 minutes a day with me before going back into our room for a couple hours.

    Marriage counseling never works, we just end up more apart after spilling our guts and whomever’s side the therapist seems to take ticks off the other person.

    I truly don’t know what this woman wants, it’s obvious she isn’t in love with me anymore because there’s nothing I can do to make the relationship better. I’m not in this to be divorced again, so basically I spend my time focused on our daughter and making sure she is on track.

    It’s a fairly frustrating and lonely life. I’m far from perfect, but I do listen and do my best to change where I can. At this point it seems we are just playing it out until my daughter graduates and leaves, at that point I expect she will ask for a divorce or do something to get one.

    At some point last year I was in counseling myself, and tried many things the therapist suggested to help the relationship. Compliments, doing extra things, listening more and making sure she got whatever she wanted. Nothing changed, she just kept after my other daughter until she got what she wanted, her out of the house.

    At this point it just feels good to vent, and maybe I can get some extra prayers to find the right solution to this relationship.

  45. I’m so sorry Frustrated, it sounds like you married the Wicked Witch of the West. This line here really gets me:

    “she just kept after my other daughter until she got what she wanted, her out of the house.”

    You’re talking to someone who was kicked out of her house as a young adult for being engaged to my now husband. Kicking a young woman out (unless she’s done something truly severe to earn it) is just asking for her to get into something dangerous.

    So your wife, who doesn’t give you any affection, time listening to you, sex etc. was allowed to kick your daughter out of your house?! How old is this daughter and what exactly did she do to be thrown out on her own? You admit your wife wanted her out and “kept after her” to push it to where this happened – that doesn’t sound right at all and makes her sound downright evil.

    I’ll ask my husband to answer in his own words and see what he says about your situation. We’re not perfect people at all, so we may be wrong about what we see here. I’m so sorry you’re going through this, it’s not uncommon at all with blended families to have this kind of step-mother drama, and quite frankly, you’re allowing her to act this way to you (denying you any kind of semblance of a husband-wife relationship) by being MUCH too nice to her about it all. You need to put your foot down and stop accepting her bad treatment. Your wife isn’t acting like a wife at all to you, and yet she’s given wifely privileges of your commitment and protection, and even allowed to kick your own daughter (who needs you more than likely) out of your life because your wife “kept after her” to “get what she wanted” (the daughter out of y’all’s lives). Again, this sounds like she is very evil and you’re allowing this evil to control your family and children. Those are just my initial thoughts.

  46. Thanks for your response. My daughter earned it, or I wouldn’t have kicked her out. Drinking and drugs, arrests with a night in jail, sex with a boyfriend while our teenage daughter slept in the room next door, constant partying, taking little responsibility for her actions. She is young at 21, but it has been going on too long. I gave her many chances over the past 4-5 years. She can’t keep a job, but she does have an opportunity because she isn’t dumb, despite making poor choices over and over.

    As for my wife, they never got along. I was always in the middle of them. My wife does have many redeeming qualities, or else I would have left long ago. I agree with you, and have stood up to her many times. What is difficult is I’m dealing with a person who is depressed, someone who can withdraw completely. I’m trying to keep a balance here, but I’m truly at a loss about what to do.

    I won’t leave my youngest daughter, and I’ve been a stable influence for all our kids so the family has taken precedence. We would have a chance at a better relationship, but if you can’t forgive people, let go of the past and get rid of your resentment, I mean truly forgive, then you really will be stuck and keep wondering why the same things happen over and over again.

    I have a lot of love to give, and want to share it with my wife. There’s just no apparent way to break this cycle.

  47. FM
    There is no fixing this. You have two basic choices if you expect to remain with that harridan: put up or shut up. She feels she has control and what you might want doesn’t matter to her. She doesn’t respect you, and you aren’t about to get that back.

    You aren’t going to come out of this in one piece, so you might as well decide how many pieces you are prepared to break into.

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