Single Man Gets Berated For Daring to Have Standards for Women’s Behavior

man-emasculated-shame-shaming-disposable-male-sexuality

I witnessed today on my FB newsfeed, a single man get berated by a female “friend” for daring to have standards for how he expects to be treated by a woman (his potential future wife) in the singles’ dating market.  For the sake of the post, I call him Matt and the shaming, criticizing woman will be called Megan.

Matt had used Match.com’s online connection to chat with a 40 year-old single mom, who was very upfront about not wanting anymore children, and very demanding on finding out if he wanted children or not.  He answered candidly & honestly, that he was just seeing where things would go and wasn’t ready to take things that fast yet.  He thought nothing of his reply, however, she abruptly ended their conversation in a rude, harsh manner that left him wondering why she thought she was so entitled to treat another person so callously.

He couldn’t understand why the 40 yr old was so harsh, and why she would shut him down immediately.  Single moms in their 40’s don’t have a lot of options, they’ve wasted their youth and the majority of their beauty either sleeping with many men, hopping from relationship to relationship, or in a marriage that ended in divorce.  He wondered in his comments, why she (and women he’s encountered while dating online in general) aren’t more open-minded, more willing to bend, why they have a long list of must haves (even at that advanced an age in the dating market), and will next a guy at the slightest hint of missing her mark.

I replied to him what I’ve learned about older women.  They really are less willing to bend, more close-minded when it comes to looking at men.   They “know what they want,” are extremely (and often arrogantly) opinionated, and they feel as though they deserve to have their way.  He mentioned that she acted like it was “her way or the highway,” and it is, exactly that for a lot of women in this age-range.  Their entitlement is felt through the way they treat men like my single guy friend, if he isn’t of use to them, they’ll callously cast him aside into a pile of trash – they don’t bother to be courteous or kind to a man that will not suit their draft horse desires.  If he isn’t exactly what they want, they won’t stay long to see if he has any “redeeming qualities” because in their mind, they deserve the perfect man.  It might not have been completely this case with this particular woman, but this is something I’ve read is very common in the online dating market.

Women at her stage of life, are either in tune with their real-life options, and therefore go about trying to catch someone who “fits” what they want, or they are out of tune, and falsely believe they will have an easier time finding a man than what the reality is that they face.  She is on the hunt, and is on the losing side of time when it comes to finding a desirable man as every year she ages, more and more men will be turned on by younger women.

A woman in this position would do well to maximize her marriage value – embrace her femininity, kindness, caring qualities.  Take the time to work on her outward appearance to make sure she is the most beautiful she can possibly be at her age.  The 40 yr old single mom did not exhibit kindness, or even courteous behavior towards Matt, and he remarked on how unnecessary it was.  He said that showing kindness when turning someone down is rare, but still very desirable and attractive – how would she know that he didn’t happen to know a man who would fit her desires?

I was drawn in to his post on FB when I saw Megan, a friend of his, start to shame him for “judging” the 40 yr old single mom who treated him harshly.  Megan said she was trying to “Call him out,” for his behavior in judging her, and to think upon what would Jesus do?  Would Jesus have posted about his experience with her?  She accused him of detailing his whole life on facebook, which he doesn’t, of “gossiping”… never-mind he never once let any personal details or the name of this woman come to light in his post.  She instructed him that he should “love” all women, and not judge them at all… because you know, he’s a Christian and a Christian wouldn’t/shouldn’t judge others or use their godly discernment in deciding on a future marriage partner.  I was appalled to see a woman had instructed my single friend to turn a blind eye to how women treat him, to give them a pass because they have a vagina, so I jumped in and set her straight.  She became so flustered and righteously angry with me when she couldn’t argue with any of my valid points that she deleted all her shaming/bullying comments, and left him alone.

Her reaction was typical of women when they see a single man complain at all about his struggles in the dating realm – they either passively sympathize with him, or outright shame him for not bucking up and taking the mistreatment, but virtually no woman is brave enough to give him any real advice or send him to where he can get it.

Matt was merely relating a life experience he had in the dating market with an anonymous woman, an uncomfortable experience because he felt mistreated, and felt that he could trust his fellow female friends to give him their take on why women behave this way.

But he’s a man… he should just take what he gets right?

 

I mean, how dare he have standards?

 

Advertisements

20 thoughts on “Single Man Gets Berated For Daring to Have Standards for Women’s Behavior

  1. I am so glad my marriage worked out for both of us. It can be ugly in the dating world. I feel sorry from some older divorced women I met at work.Their husbands divorced them and married younger women. Due to No Fault Divorce, many had to move out of nice homes, find a cheap apartment, and take an entry level job because they had been a stay at home mom and had to employment skills. Most were bitter. They will probably never re-marry. I feel sorry for them.

    In your example, the gal was simply rude. Sex should have nothing to do wilh being civil. I was trained in the 1930’s–40’s to be polite and respectful to all girls and women. I am still that way even though a few gals got what I call edgy.

    I am really grateful to still be married to my high school girl friend—almost 60 years.

    frank

  2. What she thinks she is doing (cutting to the chase) is actually doing something else (destroying the chase). My advice to this woman would be to carefully screen for matches that are not interested in having children (this information is listed right on the profile), but to also keep in mind that people do change what they want sometimes. So the man who says he is okay with someone else having children might not be down the line. Or the man who says he doesn’t want children might decide he does. So, it will be necessary to have a conversation at some point DOWN THE LINE, but NOT in initial chatting!!!

    My advice to the man would be to also closely examine a woman’s profile and to not even engage her unless her life situation is something he is comfortable with. He is under no obligation to involve himself with someone with a child if he doesn’t want to. He is under no obligation to tell someone he just met his every thought and feeling. I would also advise him to approach online dating like a job. While you can find many “good enough” people, finding someone who is exceptionally compatible is more rare and takes more effort. Although it sounds like this exchange stung a little, it’s best to be brushed off and forgotten. Don’t waste time on dead ends. Keep finding new paths.

  3. “I was appalled to see a woman had instructed my single friend to turn a blind eye to how women treat him, to give them a pass because they have a vagina, so I jumped in and set her straight. She became so flustered and righteously angry with me when she couldn’t argue with any of my valid points that she deleted all her shaming/bullying comments, and left him alone.”

    Good for you! And well done, Dragonfly girl. 😉
    You never know, this might be a defining moment where she reconsiders her life choices/ personal paradigm. Sometimes small things do that. She’s likely never truly been called on her shite before (by a woman in particular).

    “I mean, how dare he have standards?”
    Yep. Crazy isn’t it? I mentioned this on another forum this morning.
    There was a recent Mad Men episode where Peggy took a guy home on a date. Here is the dialog:
    P: “I thought you were a fling, but now I think you might be more. I don’t want to sleep with you the first day we met…”

    Him: “You’re so old fashioned.”

    P: “I’ve tried new fashioned.”

    Him: “You really want me to go?”

    Aw…how romantic. Too special to screw on the first date. Unlike, all those many many other guys who weren’t so special. Only haterz disagree! Don’t judge he should just be glad she considers him to be special.

  4. So many directions to take this. Two things:

    Thank you, Dragonfly, for what you did.

    Secondly, I don’t blame the 40-year-old woman. Not to drag this into the “do women have true moral agency” thing that some folks love—but she made a valid “life experience” choice.

    She simply doesn’t know enough about herself or others to have chosen differently, and now’s likely cut herself off from a very decent life outcome with your friend.

    I believe in AA they say something like the alcoholic makes a choice, and then her spouse (or family, etc.) must make their own choices.

  5. Whoop, careful there Peggy! You’re tipping the pages of the girl game book!

    It doesn’t even signal a lack of desire, always. It’s just – girls often discover pretty quickly that they can use their sexuality as a bargaining chip.

    Nowadays, if you have provider capabilities, you need to hide that under your hat if you want to feel a girl’s real desire for you. It’s some weird mental gymnastics at first, let me tell you.

  6. Right, I think she was trying to weed out who would be a good match, and someone that doesn’t really know for sure if he wants a pre-made family or not, might waste her time. But his point was that women can be so harsh and expect to not even be criticized about it, because… who dares criticize a female! I couldn’t believe what I was reading on my own facebook feed.

  7. See, he said he was comfortable with the thought of marrying someone with children, but he wasn’t ready to take the conversation to that point yet.

    That’s good advice you had for him, to really seek out within himself, what he wants. He’s honestly at the point in his life where he’s JUST realizing that it’s “ok” to have standards when it comes to how women act with him. He’s just realizing that women are not as angelic as he used to think. And he’s just beginning to see how much value HE actually brings to the table, which makes him not put up with this kind of awkward or harsh treatment anymore.

    Blue pill turning to Red pill very slowly.

  8. Women leap to each other’s defense reflexively. Do you have any notion how unreliable that makes your advice to each other?

    Last night I had some girls over for dinner. One of them has a strikingly pretty face, and a good body that’s starting to get more than a little soft around the edges. Not fat yet by any means, but a bit past just being voluptuous. So I told her in some convo that she was packing a little potbelly, and patted her stomach affectionately. She laughed, batted away my hand, and said: “Are you saying I’m fat?” Giving me these eyes like she’s daring me to tease her. So I sat back like I’m giving her my expert analysis, tease a bit more, then give her the straight dope: Look, lovely, every girl has a certain acceptable weight range. You’re still in it, but you can’t gain any more weight and still stay in it. You could lose some and still be in it – might even be a bit better, really.

    She agreed, graciously. She appreciated/was attracted to my straightforwardness. And it didn’t come across as insulting, because I was still attracted to her and that played out in my sub communications.

    Anyways, two other girls partially overheard and came up all “what are you talking about?” So this girl gets an impish look on her face and says, “Forge says I’m fat!” Immediately the room was filled with cooing and vivid reassurances that she was not fat in the least and how could I say that and she was perfect the way she was I could practically see objective reality unravelling like thread pulled by a hamster-powered loom.

    I’ve come to appreciate a well-crafted shit test. That one was brilliant, really. It wasn’t mean-spirited, I just got to test my frame for a fun ten minutes of bantering against the rabid female-support system.

    That’s a bit of a tangent though. It does suck for guys that haven’t learned to do that – that don’t even realize such things are possible. I’ve been there. And before you realize how deeply you’ve crushed your own standards and desires and impulses, you don’t even know they exist. You just wonder why everyone seems so cruel. You don’t realize how, by participating in the seeming cruelty, everyone ends up having more fun and connecting in different, deeper ways.

  9. “Anyways, two other girls partially overheard and came up all “what are you talking about?” So this girl gets an impish look on her face and says, “Forge says I’m fat!” Immediately the room was filled with cooing and vivid reassurances that she was not fat in the least and how could I say that and she was perfect the way she was I could practically see objective reality unravelling like thread pulled by a hamster-powered loom.

    I’ve come to appreciate a well-crafted shit test. That one was brilliant, really. It wasn’t mean-spirited, I just got to test my frame for a fun ten minutes of bantering against the rabid female-support system.”

    Or…maybe it wasn’t a female-support system.
    Maybe they’re actually hoping she’ll get really fat! 😛

  10. Pingback: Honor Dads

  11. Illuminating post! Consider checking out “Healing the Masculine Soul” by Gordon Dalbey. Christian emphasis aside, you’ll find his take on why many women fall into this trap pretty interesting. vr/HD

  12. Wow! You handled that amazingly Forge! Kudos to you… that takes a strong man to be able to tell a woman what you did and do it in the kind of way that is still alluring. You definitely sound like you kept your frame, confidence, and even amused mastery. The PUA’s would be proud.

  13. Liz

    I’ve heard that kinda theory before, it’s pretty funny really. And ya, I think that’s part of it. I don’t think any girl cries when another gets fat. It might be a bit strong to say they want her to, but certainly being socially gracious in the short-term is more important than encouraging her to be healthy!

    As a general rule, men can stand to learn being more in the moment; women can stand to gain greater future-orientation.

  14. Lol

    You giving me a taste of that sweet, sweet female-support system Dragonfly? 😉

  15. Ah, thanks. It was pretty fun really. I was still a bit too hesitant here and there, but I’ll get there. I think what a lot of PUA’s miss is that if you don’t genuinely like the girls you’re interacting with none of this really works out.

    The important takeaway from all this is that it is incredibly helpful for a man to know about shit testing – whether explicitly or implicitly. Without that knowledge, I would have been stuck on a level of arguing about object-level issues with these girls. That wasn’t what they were going for at all.

    If a man has that knowledge – a knowledge of what on earth is going on around him, really, – and a smidge of confidence – he’s well on his way. Dragonfly, I don’t think you need to hear this, but let your husband teach your sons lessons that seem weird, that you don’t understand. Even if they’re ‘crude’ or ‘inappropriate.’ Don’t cut them down or tease them for going after girls, when most boys start doing so they aren’t quite ready to stand up to that. Let them take risks, even if they seem stupid or pointless – that’s how a man learns confidence, by having faced larger risks than those before him in the past. And if, at a younger age like now, you notice one of them starting to dominate the other with reciprocal submission, separate them as much as you can – this is hard, but a man needs to grow up around peers, not superiors.

    Hopefully then they won’t need to age to nearly 30 before growing the 1/6th teste the man in your post has grown.

  16. “It might be a bit strong to say they want her to, but certainly being socially gracious in the short-term is more important than encouraging her to be healthy!”

    Women are sneaky, so it’s hard to say. 😛

  17. Thank you Forge. I do try to let my husband teach my oldest already things that are too guy-like to me. He definitely identifies way more with his dad, and he even teases me using the model that his dad uses – and he’s 4 years old!!! He’s going to be (more than likely) a Casanova. He’s a triple threat – brains, atheletic (and good at it), and very handsome… and he already knows it, too. And he’s not afraid to voice his opinions about crazy women… he heard the latest Taylor Swift song called “Blank Space” (which is if you’ve ever seen the music video, about a BPD or straight out bipolar girl dating various men… it’s pretty anti-male), anyway, he heard it while we were out at the Zoo, and announced that it was “that crazy girl song,” and rolled his eyes LOL. He already seems to understand that women are not perfect angels and that they can be manipulative in using men.

  18. I identify quite a bit with Forge. A little red pill awareness and a semi sarcastic witty reportorial conversation makes for fun times. Men who can do that are rare. And the surprised looks from females when a man does not apologize for all other men or his own actions is amusing. They expect a male beaten down by societal pre conditioning and the subtle ‘feminine imperative’ of today, and when that’s not the case, growling and gnashing of teeth can and will commence…

  19. I hear all the time about the gift of singleness, or the “season” of it, and at my age (mid forties) as a man…….

    It was a “forced hand” on me. I lived in the world for a long time and I was no ladies man. I even have a “bad past” that I am not proud of (drug addiction).

    Even after my 11 plus years of sobriety. Even after accepting Christ, and daily trying to conform myself to Him……I got tired of just “not being good enough” for the women my age who are Christian. I am not looking for a woman who is fifteen / twenty years younger than me. I am realistic. I also understand that the woman I would get involved with would be more than likely a single-mom. I had to understand that as a Christian man, at my age….with my past………if I indeed want marriage; I have to accept that I am not 25 and fresh out of grad school anymore. The game has changed. I have to deal with it. The situation has changed; and I must accept the reality I am in now.

    I don’t know how to say this without sounding like I am just complaining (which is very unattractive on a man, Christian or not). I can’t express it in a way that makes it sound like I am not attacking my Christian single sisters. I’ll just say it:

    No man can fix your life. No man will make all of your dreams come true. No man can save you. Christian single men and women today are so paralyzed about how to do this this thing called dating; nobody makes a move. Nobody will even accept a date for what it is……just a date; it’s not a marriage proposal. Men tend to be afraid of causing offense with someone in their church, it’s easier to do nothing (and in some cases, probably better that they don’t). Women tend to have such expectations on a man of “must haves” by what she says……or doesn’t say (her attitude to people in her church) it puts out the image that no man can pursue you or have you…….because it’s obvious you don’t need one.

    If you are living your life for yourself with your mission trips, your drive for a powerful career, or education……well, you obviously have no room for anyone else.

    It’s only getting worse and too many Christian men today, and women get that “forced hand” so to speak and just end up accepting their singleness as a gift.

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s