Art of Seduction

becomeyourhusbandswhore

I’ve written before how important sex is to men.  How men need sex… how they crave quality sex versus quantity (though they don’t mind quantity).  Its just who they are, and how they were designed to be, and is why since the beginning of time it seems, we have always had the oldest sins around – adultery and prostitution.  These have always stayed with us, for very basic reasons that a wife would do well to understand.

This is not to say that women don’t also cheat on their husbands, apparently they seem to cheat just as much as men do – however, this post is for women to understand why their husbands may look at porn, have a fling, or a full fledged affair with another woman.  Most often, when men search for sexual fulfillment other than their wife, they are doing so because they are craving something very particular.

Admiration

Virtually all men crave a woman who admires him.  A woman who will listen to him when he’s talking about something he finds interesting, or when he’s giving his opinion.  They want a woman who will be interested and fascinated with what he says – yes, I said fascinated.  It turns them on to be in the presence of a hot woman (his wife) who is also giving him her entire attention and the right kind of feedback that says, “You are such an interesting man!  Omg I want you!  Now!!!”

When was the last time you reacted to your husband like that?  I know… us wives are ridiculously tired, over-achieving, too much to do, have kids hanging off our legs at any moment when we’re at home (or out… at the store trying to deal with a meltdown).  I understand, I’m a wife and mother of two now.  But guess what?  Your husband craves this kind of thing, and if this need is met by you, he will move mountains to ensure your happiness.

In our marriage, I’ve made sure to keep this aspect of our romance alive – its just how we’ve always been and I’m not “pretending” to be interested at all, its just second nature to me with him.  Its affects on my husband have made friends jealous of how he treats me, because I play more the role of a lover, he plays more the role of a man who showers his lover with gifts and attention & romance.  He brings me my favorite strawberry filled donut for no reason other than he thought of me at the store when he saw it.  He, on the regular, buys me chocolate just because.  He flirts and teases me like he did when I was 19… and I’m almost 29!  We have the kind of relationship that others envy because I’ve chosen to be a different kind of wife.  (do you hear that? I chose… any wife can make that choice) My role of being his seductive, passionate lover, in essence, strategically segued him into playing his role of being my favorite (and only) “client.”

Respect

How many men crave respect?  All of them.  They want to be known as the leader of their house, they want their wives to defer to them for decisions – but they want their wives to genuinely do it out of the feeling of respect, not just half-heartedly ask their husbands what they think, but to let them know that they are expressly interested in their husband’s response because of who he is.

They want a woman who looks up to them – who doesn’t try to outshine them or put them down – but who greatly esteems them and their opinions on matters (this ties in directly with Admiration).  They don’t want a wife who will constantly argue and bicker with them over decisions and details, or one who challenges them and their headship constantly.

A woman who respects a man, treats him like a man… not like a child that has to be reminded or told what to do, but as a man who is capable.  She believes in him and that he will do the right thing, and he feels it and can’t help himself to fulfill it for her (because he so wants to be perceived that way).

Desire

Husbands want a wife who genuinely desires him.  A woman who does, treats foreplay differently.  She kisses his neck, runs her nails across his chest or down his bare back, she doesn’t just lie there and expect him to give her all the foreplay pleasure… she takes initiative to give it to him as well which draws out his response.

She takes the sexual experience to a whole new level with how passionately involved she is in (and out) of bed.  Desire is so intense (when you really feel it) that it can almost be tasted in the air.  Men crave a woman who shows them this.

Addicted

Men want a woman who feels addicted to them, or who gives them the impression that they are.

A woman who has fun during sex, abandons her inhibitions and isn’t afraid to vocalize anything she’s feeling, thinking, or desiring, is why prostitution (and porn even) are such big addictions for men.  Not only do the women usually look hot, the attitude they have seduces a man.  They crave the attitude a woman has when she is addicted to a man – the attitude their wife may have had when their relationship was just starting out and redhot.

Deeper!”  “OMG you’re so big!” or screaming out during sex lets him know she’s addicted to him.  Husbands crave this from their wives.  They want to feel desired and like the woman is utterly and completely addicted to him, and only him.

If a woman has accomplished all these so far, you can be sure he is starting to get addicted to her as well.  Men get addicted to this kind of sex and woman, it is why viewing porn acts like a drug in the brain.  Virtually all men even if they have a porn addiction, would rather be addicted to a real, flesh and blood woman.  All the more reasons for wives to take note!

Recipe for Disaster

So… like I’ve stated before, these are all basic emotions and feelings that lead to men turning to porn, having minor flings, or full-fledged affairs with other women.  Men are seduced not just because of woman’s body, but because of her mind and the way she uses the Art of Seduction.  If a man is lacking these basic needs in their marriage relationship, I would go as far as to say they are “starving” in these areas.  If a man feels starved, it won’t take much to tempt him to take a bite… I’ve seen homeless men pull half-eaten food out of trash cans!  They are that hungry that they’ll eat something rotting, old, germy, and disgusting… all because they are starving.  If he’s full and having all these desires met, there is no need and no desire (at all) to take a bite of something less than ideal.

You, dear wife, are ideal.  He wants you.

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140 thoughts on “Art of Seduction

  1. Oo, la la, now there’s a steamy post! 😉

    I think you’ve nailed it there. Not much I can add. Men really need to be respected, admired, desired even. They need to be seen and wanted. That sounds like common sense, but it really isn’t. Our culture tends to teach the exact opposite, so we are all about what women want, but very little focus on men, so many girls grow up these days having no idea how to make men happy, and themselves happy in the process.

  2. Thank you Insanitybytes!!! Yes, I think so too, I’d go even as far as to say that the things girls do learn, are actually things that turn men off. Like competing with men… men want to feel masculine, so when their wife or girlfriend competes in a masculine way and beats them, it makes the man less attracted to her. It sounds sexist, but it just IS. Women are most attractive to men when they are being women, not when they’re being masculine and beating him at something he prides himself in being good at. But I guess that would be another post…. 🙂

  3. “I’ve written before how important sex is to men. How men need sex… how they crave quality sex versus quantity (though they don’t mind quantity). ”

    Interesting opinion. We always hear that women crave quality vs quantity sex and men the reverse. In your opinion do both crave quality vs quantity or do women crave quantity vs quality?

  4. “Our culture tends to teach the exact opposite, so we are all about what women want, but very little focus on men”

    The pendulum swung because previously it was all about men. Eventually we’ll find a balance and it will be all about BOTH. Or better yet, all about the kids.

    But somehow I doubt that western people can put their kids ahead of their own selves. The concept of “family” seems to be about how much fun the adult partners are having together, not about sacrificing for the sake of the kids.

  5. “These have always stayed with us, for very basic reasons that a wife would do well to understand.”

    Sadly, the typical response is that they understand “men should keep it in their pants” and we women are not responsible for the behavior of men.” They miss that no one said they were responsible for the behavior. The point is they can create a set of circumstances that may encourage men to look for erotic fulfillment where they can find it if they can’t find it “at home.”

    I am sure most women mistakenly see porn as being about the woman on screen. Her body. Her hair. Her breasts. Her face. Her hips, thighs, feet and on and on. While it is true a man may have a preference for looking at a big-breasted blonde with a plump booty, it is the particular sex act, attitude and posture of the female that draws him to that image, not THAT woman. What his partner also doesn’t understand is that she is not in competition with that female. He is not absolutely grading his wife to her on a part-for-part comparison; however, he is comparing the apparent attitude and pleasure of the woman in the image to what he desires from his wife. He wants his wife to desire him and to pleasure him as willingly and passionately as that woman looks to be doing the man in the image with her. Just try to get a woman to believe and accept that

    The fact that it may be a posed situation and they are merely acting is not a factor. It is in how the action in the image is perceived by the viewer. If the viewer had a photo of themselves with their partner identically engaged, they would want to look at that over images of strangers. This is what drives homemade erotic images and sex in front of mirrors. We want to see ourselves enjoying sex with our partners and our partners enjoying sex with us. maybe even by themselves without us. We enjoy seeing our family members enjoy sports, their favorite meals, their favorite music and shows. Why wouldn’t we enjoy seeing our partners enjoy themselves sexually and sensually with AND alone without us?

    I have only scratched the surface of your insightful post. There is so much more I could as about all the topics you list.

  6. Wow Dan! I just learned so much more about men’s perspective on porn from what you disclosed. That lines up with exactly what my husband’s told me (his view on porn), and you go on further to show the sincerity of most men in desiring their wife compared to porn stars. It really is sweet much men love their wives, even when they might not be getting their needs met, they still usually only resort to porn instead of outright cheating. But they often feel guilty about porn and it never fulfills them the way their wife would (and they understand that). If only more women knew….

  7. “I am sure most women mistakenly see porn as being about the woman on screen. Her body. Her hair. Her breasts. Her face. Her hips, thighs, feet and on and on. While it is true a man may have a preference for looking at a big-breasted blonde with a plump booty, it is the particular sex act, attitude and posture of the female that draws him to that image, not THAT woman. What his partner also doesn’t understand is that she is not in competition with that female. He is not absolutely grading his wife to her on a part-for-part comparison; however, he is comparing the apparent attitude and pleasure of the woman in the image to what he desires from his wife. He wants his wife to desire him and to pleasure him as willingly and passionately as that woman looks to be doing the man in the image with her. ”

    I’ve heard that there’s no foreplay in most of the porn out there. That’s its geared to male enjoyment rather than either female enjoyment or the enjoyment of both. That its highly unrealistic in that even though everyone knows they are acting, in real life its full of pain for the woman because she is not naturally lubricated or ready but is made to simply act like she is, giving some inexperienced men the impression that this is how sex works for women – very quickly, as it does for him/them, and that when they actually get with a real woman in real life they expect the same type of scenario to unfold.

    Its nothing like sex in real life so why would men want that type of sex, knowing fully well women get nothing out of it, or even worse, they get pain out of. Unless you are saying men want their wives and girlfriends to fake it. A woman should never under any circumstances fake pleasure or an orgasm because that will only set her up for having to have it in the future as her partners will think he’s getting her off and has nothing more to do or learn. Women need to very clearly articulate what their partners are doing right and wrong, and teach them how to pleasure them. Of course no man or woman should be forced to do something that they are not at all comfortable doing such as oral sex, anal sex, pegging etc, but that is where communication come in.

    Porn is a farce and no one should look to it as something obtainable in real life, unless they plan to go into the industry as an actor.

  8. In fact, if a girl only picks ONE thing to do… pick the screaming/vocalization during sex. When I realized that Mrs. St. James likes what I (would have formerly) called a very “rapey” vibe during sex, including wall-slamming uh, thrusting power, things got approximately a billion times more awesome.

    She yells and thrashes and basically wills the sperm out of me. We don’t always hit that point, but when we do, we like to say our actual souls are fucking and not just our bodies.

  9. Not to derail, but I wanted to add this:

    I realize I probably have a dramatically different perspective than others with regard to porn and sex workers. The sex workers who I know usually do enjoy their play dates and the films they make. One dominatrix I know describes herself as simply a kinky therapist.

    It’s not degrading, there’s no hate involved, and there are SO MANY interesting stories to tell. (And perhaps surprising to some, women can “get going” faster than we think. It’s not as “faked” as one might think.)

    I’ve learned a lot about people, relationships, and sexuality from folks who do sex work—I’m sure not all of them are cool and personable and mentally healthy, but most of them are very solid human beings.

  10. If she’s otherwise healthy with even a moderate libido, if a wife is not initiating sex with her hubby it pretty much means he’s a dud in the sack. When a woman is sexually satisfied by her man, she WILL initiate.

    [Dragonfly] Oh, so you think its always the man’s fault why the woman is asexual?

  11. I’ve known a couple of prostitutes, as well, they are the most honest human beings I’ve ever met. And yes, they know everything about sex and relationships – much more than the average Christian does.

  12. I disagree with your thoughts on porn. Many men turn to porn in adulthood because they were exposed to it very early (9-12 years old) and it changed their brain. Porn is not at all just about sex or their need for sex. When a boy or a man views porn and has a physical reaction to it, it changes his brain and his view of reality. Very quickly, a male exposed to porn will become less able to truly bond with others. The most available and willing wife in the world cannot “help” a man addicted to porn. Porn numbs him and drugs him. Statistics back this up. It becomes his drug of choice. Most men turn to porn NOT because of an unfulfilled sexual drive but because of pain.

    [Dragonfly] There are many many cases proving what you are saying is not true. I understand that for some, that is the case, but you are trying to blanket your limited understanding and put it onto everyone else’s life experience. My husband was addicted to porn before we got married. He credits ME with helping him get over it. He has not looked at porn in almost 8 years now. But you say that “the most willing and available wife in the world cannot “help” a man addicted to porn.” You’re either lying, or ignorant.

    There are HUNDREDS of ministries and counselors who agree with what I have said above…

    [So?]
    because they have lived it. Talk to a man who turned to porn for many years and battled it and won. Wait, you just said that they can’t be helped! How could he win then? He will tell you that porn numbed his pain and that it was drug. If porn is only a sexual issue, why does the use of porn eventually lead to the loss of all initiative in a man? Men who use porn frequently, lose their businesses, their families and, eventually, their minds. Obviously, you are exaggerating. If this were true, our world wouldn’t have ANY functioning men LOL. You are a fruitcake dear! They become so overfocused on having a physical reaction to a false image that they lose their memories and can no longer focus on anything. LOL

    A wife who discovers her husband is using porn has every right to be very alarmed and very hurt. He has defiled their marriage. Adultery is bad but how can a woman compete with airbrushed photos? You are incredible! This is why most women will never get it. Now you are actually saying that porn is WORSE than a man having an affair with a REAL LIFE WOMAN. You are losing your case even further here with your exaggerations. Porn usage is the ultimate selfish, inwardly turned sexual act. Not always, sometimes it is a man’s only relief from sexual frustration because his wife is being THE SELFISH WIFE and withholding much needed sex from him. He is choosing the less bad option here, keeping his family in tact, trying to sate his sexual need, feeling horrible guilt usually over it, still desiring her all the while… and you want to put him on trial. I wish I could look into your life and see YOUR OWN HIDDEN SINS, I am sure there is one at least, comparable to a man’s porn addiction. It has nothing to do with reality or sexual need. Riiight.

    Here is one of MANY sites on sexual addiction and porn. This couple saved their marriage after YEARS of hard work but the hard work did NOT begin with the husband telling the wife that she hadn’t met his needs!! http://tuffstuffministries.com/

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  14. “Like competing with men… men want to feel masculine, so when their wife or girlfriend competes in a masculine way and beats them,…”
    Little presumptuous. It’s that they need to turn everything into a competition. Not that they beat them at something. It’s the constant challenge at something that doesn’t need any challenging nor does he want to make it into a challenge. Usually played out in a man conveying in some way to give it a rest, he doesn’t want to get involved in a tug of war with a fun sucker. Just sucking any enjoyment out of being around her.
    And often met with the closed minded script of not being able to handle the strong woman.

  15. Ever hear a woman complain and at the same time confusingly wonder how a man can fantasize about a woman he doesn’t know, but has only seen and finds her really attractive? It’s because all that desire, the good attitude and the fun personality is being projected into the fantasy by him.
    A woman that’s really nice looking but a man knows is a supreme jerk can be replaced in his head by one that’s not quite as nice looking but he knows nothing about.

  16. Lol. As religions go, “porn scares me so I hate it” is one of the less inspiring ones.

    If you go down this rabbit hole, at least try something like “For God so loved the world, He sent His only begotten Son that we might not die but have everlasting life.” There’s a story there at the very least.

  17. Well done Dragonfly!

    This post is more for women than men so I won’t comment too much on it, except to add my agreement. I think many women now are acutely aware of their (transient) visceral sexual power over men, but little aware of the power they have of eliciting a man’s devotion, often with so small an effort on their part.

    But I suppose it’s less a matter of effort than a matter of perspective. You need to look up from your reflection. You need to be willing to discard your conceptions of yourself as an autonomous woman. Rather than buying a nicer pair of overalls, you need to learn to find a pretty summer dress. It’s a similar process, I imagine, for a man to swallow the red pill.

  18. I’m honored that you commented FTS, I like reading your comments at The Rational Male. And yes, you are right that it’s comparable to men’s process in taking the red pill, however, I think it’s worse for men in a way because they find out things they’ve never really known, they suddenly find they’ve been betrayed by nearly everyone in their life. Women instinctively know their power over men, its why Victoria’s Secret is such a huge booming business with even a brand for teenage girls to get addicted to it. Women know they can seduce men, whereas men don’t usually have a clue about how to be alpha.

  19. Hmm, two things.

    First, I’d point out that yes, women are quite aware of their ability to seduce men sexually. This ability is emphasized at the expense of any depth of character or breadth of accomplishment; as a result we get women who are great at looking sexy, or who ragequit and pack on the pounds in protest (a lot of things contribute to our obesity epidemic, but I suspect this is part of the reason women are disproportionately represented among the obese). At the same time we get few women who really understand how to maintain a man’s love and devotion, and sustain his happiness, in the long term.

    Men have much the opposite issue. Their role as providers/LTR material is exaggerated beyond reasonable bounds, and their ability to be viscerally arousing (alpha) suffers profoundly as a result. They know far too well how to be appealing to a woman’s more placid emotions. They either become whipped betas or ragequit and go full PUA or MGTOW.

    So I’m not so sure women are given more knowledge as they are given different knowledge, and discouraged from finding what they lack. The current culture’s rhetoric against women being traditional, much less submissive, is vicious and relentless. It’s kind of like the rhetoric against men being ‘mean’ or ‘oppressive.’ Though I do think the former influence is quite a bit lesser than the latter. Which leads us to the second thing –

    I think a lot of what prevents a woman from discovering what men desire in an LTR (on top of acculturation) is based on internal rationalizations and deceptions, fueled by the intensity of desire they are capable of creating in the short term. I’m not sure I can really speak to a woman’s experience here, but let me pose a rhetorical question – how frequently does your average woman confess that she is solely responsible for some harmful thing to befall herself or others? The self-accusatory angle probably dissuades many women from even contemplating that they might have things fundamentally wrong.

    It wasn’t my personal experience swallowing the RP that I had been betrayed by everyone around me – I was lucky enough to have had a good number of warnings – but a lot of men have that sentiment. And I think the rage against the culture, or family and friends, or whatever it may be, serves as a useful externalization until a man can come to full understanding of the red pill – including his own complicity in carrying out his former blue pill programming. So I wonder if a lack of such obvious targets actually serves as a roadblock in women accepting the sort of mindset you advocate for.

    I suppose that’s a lot of text to basically say ‘I’m not sure who has it harder.’ But it is difficult to judge; men certainly have it harder in that red pill awareness and game requires behaviors and mindsets that just don’t add on top of their previous understanding of gender interactions, but turn the whole game on its head. Learning to be arousing to a woman is very counterintuitive to a man if he’s used to thinking with his head at all more than his balls. I don’t think woman have a comparable experience to that.

    Thanks for the kind words.

  20. It’s a bit pointless to comment on pornography if one begins by saying “I don’t know what it is, but it’s icky and men are uniquely prone to its evil charms.”

    Even so, before a woman assigns a kind of sexual Original Sin to males — and uses the porn industry as evidence — she might examine all of the socially acceptable forms of idolatry. Examples might include the corrupting materialism, narcissism, and celebration of the ‘perfect’ family, that are the mainstays of female-oriented popular and social media.

    Also, the notion that women do not consume porn is quite amusing in a society that celebrates sex-pozzie feminism, female sex tourism, Mylie and Madonna. Women, educated and otherwise, know exactly the contours of the sex industries. It’s the same shibboleth as “men have more affairs”: what women self-report is not reality. What really annoys feminists is when men figure this shit out, and, bingo, the feminist shaming commences with their playing the ‘sex pervert’ card. Some men decide not to allow women to control or meter or monitor or — cue Catherine MacKinnon — *define* what is an acceptable sexual ethos, inside or outside marriage.

    Finally, there are many reasons to be skeptical about the sex and porn industries. (Also, given current female attitudes toward sexual capriciousness and entitlement, they’re increasingly unnecessary, at least to men who don’t think they’re B-Team actors in a virtual chick flick.) Women who comment with such hostility, however, usually fail to note that the largest literary category is that of the romance novel (emo porn). Emo porn is at least as dangerous in it’s idealized, fantastical assumptions about female entitlement for handsome princes, and far more dangerous in the sense that it carries no social taboo. The romance novel publisher Harlequin Romance publishes 110 novels — PER MONTH — and as I recall there is the unsettling reality that 50 Shades is the most popular book in UK history, after the Bible. It outsells Shakespeare.

    My dating cohort is almost exclusively executive, independent women of a post-feminist bent, and about half of them consume both the icky porn portraying sex, the soft-porn of the romcom/Jane Austen variety, the idolatry porn of prestige travel, BMWs and Dwell and Vanity Fair magazines. More than half of them want me to take them to strip clubs (of course, I’ve only gone to a strip club for the conversation), think Gwyneth Paltrow is cool for pronouncing publicly on bush-grooming philosophy, have way more vibrators than I have hands, think Toni Bentley’s book — which was reviewed in the socially acceptable NY Times — is a tribute to female empowerment. (No, I’m not going to say how many complain about not getting more up the back door.)

    Women who sneer at male sexuality and revile it as innately corrupt tend not to know, or choose to deny, heterosexual female practices and attitudes. I suppose that’s because they’re anti-sex, and regard seduction as supportive of the Patriarchy. Or they are seducers of the “show up naked with a bottle of rye and a tube of KY” variety.

  21. Bleh. Yes. The “porn changes your brain” thing isn’t wrong, it’s just right about the wrong thing. ADDICTIONS change your brain, not porn. Like my mother in law: her “porn” is terrible eating habits and the resulting obesity. Porn or food or alcohol or reality TV isn’t a problem until it becomes a problem.

    “No no, my ex-boyfriend was addictied to porn and it wrecked our relationship!” Well, you ex-BF was addicted to ___________ and THAT is what wrecked it. The problem isn’t porn, the problem is the person.

    (I say all this as a happily married guy whose ridiculously innocent wife also enjoys porn, and who counts a number of sex workers as friends.)

  22. Sorry to comment again, Dragonfly, but I had to add: normal-ass dudes KNOW that sex with a real woman is freakin awesome (and it’s free if you’re smart!). Dudes who sincerely go to porn FIRST when they have a willing wife waiting in bed are crazy. Something’s broken. It’s not porn’s problem, it’s that the dude truly cannot correctly evaluate sexual experiences.

    And (duh) it’s that the wife won’t have sex with him. Which blows a guy’s mind—a girl who whill semi-happily marry him, but never bother to have regular sex with him. The inverse is also true for women—a dude who will semi-happily fuck her, but never bother to commit to her.

    The dumbest rationalization we have in the theory of marriage is that women have a lower sex drive. They certainly initiate sex less often, but yeah… not a lower sex drive. Mrs. St. James would say she’s receptive almost all the time, but initiative only during ovulation.

    Believe me, I don’t blame women at all. Not that I don’t believe in God, but we humans absolutely are just a bunch of selfish and evolved monkeys who are optimizing our mating strategies. As a guy, my advice to guys is: don’t settle for the girl who’s settling for you.

    Everyone would be happier that way.

  23. Thank you for commenting Buena Vista, love how brought up women using porn, romance novel emo-porn (what you said is exactly right):

    Women who comment with such hostility, however, usually fail to note that the largest literary category is that of the romance novel (emo porn). Emo porn is at least as dangerous in it’s idealized, fantastical assumptions about female entitlement for handsome princes, and far more dangerous in the sense that it carries no social taboo. The romance novel publisher Harlequin Romance publishes 110 novels — PER MONTH — and as I recall there is the unsettling reality that 50 Shades is the most popular book in UK history, after the Bible. It outsells Shakespeare.

    It is at least as dangerous – if not more – for all the women who are married to their Beta Bux. The men displayed in those books are incredibly and impossibly “Alpha” – they automatically AMOG any husband. And yet women like this one only want to focus on visual porn being (as you so correctly said) “icky!” because it has sex.

    I suppose that’s because they’re anti-sex, and regard seduction as supportive of the Patriarchy.

    lol I’m thinking it’s this one^^. I wish every woman would love her husband enough, desire him enough, to want to seduce him.

    [Oops! Sorry got the italics all wrong!]

  24. Expiating on the internet, to men, in lieu of eating a bullet or drinking 24×7, is helpful. As I am no longer confessing on the internet, I would appreciate your not referencing those indiscretions, to women who have an Ivy League handle, as though that adds weight to opinion. I just put my Ivy stickers on my Volvo breadbox wagon, and leave it at that so the cops think twice before tossing the car.

    Your point of view is of value, to men and women. I suspect your husband is a fortunate guy.

  25. Actually, single professional women are more of the ‘rye and KY’ persuasion. Which is fine if we men take our vitamins, I guess.

  26. “I wish every woman would love her husband enough, desire him enough, to want to seduce him.”

    I disagree with this and the general theme of this post, NOT in that we shouldn’t be available to our husbands, be charming, sexy, etc, but in the use of the word seduce.

    If you look at the 1828 Noah Webster definition of seduce, its not a word of something you should “want” to do to your husband. I rely on the 1828 version as its more accurate to true definition of words and Christian based.

    SEDU’CE, v. t. [L. seduco; se, from, and duco, to lead.]

    1. To draw aside or entice from the path of rectitude and duty in any manner, by flattery,

    promises, bribes or otherwise; to tempt and lead to iniquity; to corrupt; to deprave.

    Me the gold of France did not seduce. Shak.

    In the latter times, some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits.

    Tim. 4.
    2. To entice to a surrender of chastity. He that can seduce a female is base enough to betray her.

  27. Asexual? Did I say asexual? There are several physical reasons, and some emotional-mental ones, why a man or woman may not want to have sex with their spouse at any given time, but if a woman is in good health and has at least a moderate libido, if she is not initiating sex with her husband, and even worse, if she is avoiding sex with her husband on a regularly basis, then yes, I would say its very likely he sucks (and not in a good way) in bed.

    There are many men who just don’t have the skills their wives require to experience pleasure. There’s help out there for them, a lot of it in fact, but some men are resistant to seeking help in that area, even reading a book, forget about a workshop or a weekend at One Taste or something like that. True story!

  28. “Lol. As religions go, “porn scares me so I hate it” is one of the less inspiring ones.

    If you go down this rabbit hole, at least try something like “For God so loved the world, He sent His only begotten Son that we might not die but have everlasting life.” There’s a story there at the very least.”

    Um, but aren’t the later the ones who usually say the former?

  29. Timber, women who are healthy and of at least moderate libido initiate sex and certainly don’t refuse it, unless the sex itself is bad, the lover/husband lacks in skills or some way.

  30. ” Women instinctively know their power over men, its why Victoria’s Secret is such a huge booming business with even a brand for teenage girls to get addicted to it. Women know they can seduce men, whereas men don’t usually have a clue about how to be alpha.”

    Believe it or not there are clueless women out here. It appears you live in a bubble due to all the male attention you received in college. That means you ranked at least an 8 out of 10 on your particular campus. You may say, “I’m not that beautiful” and you may be right, in general when compared on a campus in an area of the US or the world that has better looking people on average. But within your own pond, you were certainly one of the prettier fish. Average looking women and certainly below average looking women, who comprise most women here, did not have those experiences. You probably don’t mean it but you come off as non-sympathetic to the average and below average looking American woman’s experience. Probably because you have nothing to relate it to in your own life, so you can’t empathise with them.

  31. “Also, the notion that women do not consume porn”

    – Who said that?! MOST American women under the age of 50 are watching porn.

    “The romance novel publisher Harlequin Romance publishes 110 novels — PER MONTH ”

    So what? The romance novel industry makes under 15 million annually while porn is multi-billions. You are trying to make the case that women watch porn, and they do, but then you say its romance novels. Nope. Women are part of why the hardcore porn industry is in the multi-billions.

  32. Or they say, “porn is sinful so I hate it”. 6 of 1, half dozen of the other. They also say masturbation is sinful.

  33. “I realize I probably have a dramatically different perspective than others with regard to porn and sex workers. ”

    Sex work should be legalized and mainstreamed, in my opinion. Sex Surrogacy should again become a valid career choice. Its somewhat different from prostitution, requires a degree and/or license and is a legit sex therapist but he or she can have sex with clients if deemed necessary to help them. It was once legal in the States a long time for a short time but got quickly shut down.

  34. I’m surprised One Taste hasn’t gotten shut down by the Feds yet, considering the “sex work” they do. Its a type of sex surrogacy in a way and while you can bring your own partner to OM with, they also provide “trainers” and “coaches” for the couples and singles without someone in tow as well. The creator had a TED Talk and everything so maybe that’s why it hasn’t gotten busted. “Changing the world one orgasm at a time” type of “revolution” I guess.

    I actually know a couple who swear by it.

    The link is clean and safe for work onetaste.us.

  35. Sweetheart, aside from your repetitive habit of deciding what other people really think and what experiences they’ve really had, which is a form of talking to yourself in a mirror, you have serious reading comprehension issues coupled with an inability to process objective information.

    There are *individual* romance novelists who clear more than $15mm a year. As I previously noted, it’s the largest irreligious literary genre in existence.

    Remember Truman Capote’s axiom: typing is not writing.

    Do some research, and this does not mean regurgitating third-wave feminist talking points, and attempt to fit your bizarre models of human behavior and economic activity to actual evidence.

  36. I share your interest in the historical Webster, and use the 1913 edition myself. There’s a wonderful essay on McPhee and his patient, precise, poetic use of diction to elaborate on seemingly prosaic things, which I think you’ll enjoy:

    http://jsomers.net/blog/dictionary?utm_content=buffere842a&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer

    If we’re going to cherry-pick Biblical verses in order to diminish the role of feminine sexual devotions to a husband, however, in order to assert that a woman pleasing and supporting her husband is merely a invitation to corruption (“to entice to a surrender of chastity”), we’re not just on scriptural thin ice. We’re plunging through it. We’re throwing out the entire Biblical notion of married sexual devotions.

    I struggle with your suggestion that such devotions, between wife and husband, are corrupt. Actually, I would say that asserting that they are is the inverse of a Biblical understanding of sex and marriage.

    What is secular about the assertion is that it suggests that sex is something a woman arbitrates, a woman meters out according to *her* temporal feelings; it suggests that a woman has no obligation to grace her marriage with sexual attentions and desires. This is not a Christian concept, it is a feminist Churchian idea. It diverges utterly from Biblical instruction, and is in fact idolatrous, as it elevates a wife to a blasphemous position of sexual authority. (Though it is the dominant attitude even within the evangelical community.)

    Hence saying that “If I seduce you I am imperiling your chastity” is faux Biblical lipstick on a secular pig. It’s merely a restatement, with a Biblical, out of context footnote, of Mad Yale’s loopy conviction that sex is something that just happens if the man is any good at seduction and schtupping. There’s absolutely no basis for that thesis in the literature of sex, marriage, and couples’ behavior over time. It does justify, I guess, why so many self-described Christian women deny their marriages sexual intimacy. And then shame their men for their desires. Many of these women assert a primary ‘relationship’ with Jesus, and subordinate their men to the role of provider and protector. Not only does the notion of a feminine ‘relationship with Jesus’ not exist in the Bible, the word ‘relationship’ does not exist. If we’re going to talk about the corruptions of the flesh, in marriage, we should probably start by representing scripture accurately when we justify personal choices.

  37. You should probably re-read your prior pronouncements that porn, which you haven’t seen (“I’ve heard …”) but about which you have definitive opinions, is geared solely to men. So I guess you could be implying that women are consumers of something that doesn’t reflect their sexuality, practices or needs. I await your unwinding that premise.

    Also, you know very little about heterosexual female sexual response. Are you in college and/or a lesbian? That would explain the trolling. You continue to describe female sexuality as a natural state in which men are unattractive sexual incompetents, who have only themselves to blame for not getting enough duty sex from their long-suffering spouses.

  38. I once knew a Christian girl that also had issues with thinking of married sexual fulfillment being akin to “corruption” and against her “purity/chastity.” I wasn’t close to her, but a mutual friend of ours showed me her invitation to her lingerie shower. It shocked me. She didn’t want anything “racy” or “too sexy” to be given as gifts for her lingerie.

    I get it that people definitely have different tastes… but this just reminded me of that line from Sandra Bullock’s Miss Congeniality “They’re Satan’s panties!!!” Why do women wear lingerie? The whole purpose is to seduce… and within marriage, there is nothing wrong with that. It’s odd to me to be so caught up in the word itself that you say you disagree with the post that wives should learn the Art of Seduction.

    It’s odd to cringe at things that are ok within the sexual context of marriage – or to make such a big deal out of the print (her invitation also said no leopard print), and to take something good and intended for pleasure (seduction between married lovers) and twist it to imply that they are corrupting each other. There’s nothing wrong with the word seduce in how I am talking about the Art of Seduction. Just like there’s nothing wrong with lingerie that’s “racy” or “too sexy.” Its sex-negative feminism to misapply that way (or I guess as others would say in the manosphere, its Churchian feminism).

    There’s nothing wrong with “Satan’s panties!” ❤

  39. My favorite Satan’s Panties are La Perla. Of course, as a friend told me recently, you could feed an entire African village with what they cost.

    I read, on the internet so it must be 100% true, that French professional women spend 30% of their income on lingerie. It sounds like the nut in the lingerie shower story wanted kevlar nursing bras with the inscriptions “We just have mismatched libidos!” or “You know I don’t like to do that, isn’t once a year on your birthday enough?” Perhaps I’m wrong. Maybe on the back of her mommie drawers they say “Are you done yet?”

    Forcing a husband to live in a humiliating virtual celibacy — because he won’t step out on his wife — or violate his vows by stepping out, that ain’t Christian. And if using the word “seduce” is proscribed dirty talk, holy sexual desert, Batman.

    I’d say that “Churchian feminism” is a redundancy. But that is the ethos of most churches, and why Christian churches, like divorce, are 70% chosen, attended and run by females.

    I have a friend who attended seminary, is a Ph.D in theology, is a conservative Baptist (which I regard as pretty darn conservative). He is a masculine man: hospital exec, motorcyclist, weightlifter, Mr. Fixit around the house. Eats right, doesn’t drink. He loves his wife and daughters, his home, his life. His wife gives him some starfish action once-twice a month, provided she gets a buzz on first. But now that he doesn’t drink at all, she won’t have her three glasses of wine before somnolently reclining and thinking of OU Football, or whatever she thinks about. She is an empowered “Christian” woman, and university professor. That’s a 20-year relationship that I do not think will see 2016. Women who don’t want to have sex shouldn’t ruin everyone’s life by taking marriage’s provisioning and other comforts. There’s nothing wrong with crochet and kittens.

  40. I take your point on the sex-solely-for-procreation fallacy. I don’t really buy it though, today, because, even in sola scriptura congregations, the married women are dressing for sexual attractiveness, and pimping out their teenage daughters. The rhetoric of churchian seduction is different than the rhetoric of secular seduction (as is, I suspect, the quality of the fruit), but divorce rates aren’t much better in the former. If the women can trade up to a man they find more attractive than the one they’ve got, they often do. “Christian” or not.

    As an example of the distortions in churchian culture, consider the concept of the “technical virgin.” I don’t know about other people, but some sexual practices I didn’t need to learn in high school, just to sustain a technical virgin teenager’s intact hymen.

    I get flat-out hustled when I go to church. The skepticism men like me have is that even in evangelical culture, and the rise of pop stuff like the Promisekeeper b.s., men are just utilities to be efficiently allocated to a deserving woman. Then he has to ‘earn’ his spouse’s affections. An elder in one church I attend is a very pleasant big guy, on marriage number two. He was over at my house once, and in our first real conversation (which was supposed to be about a wrecked motorcycle I was selling), he teared up and said how he had just pulled off the road to pray on how to please his wife. From there we went to way TMI, and all I could think to say was, “Have you considered the fact that she’s a restless, manipulative bitch?” She rolls out the cleavage on Sunday and does the reaching for the sky thing during the idiotic soft-rock praise songs to boyfriend Jesus.

    Anyway, as a ‘mature man’ it takes about five seconds to know which couples are attracted to each other. And no more to discern who gets to have conversations about ‘mismatched libidos.’ Attraction and respect are the key variables.

    If you’re interested in an evangelical view of why men are not churched up, see David Murrow:

    http://www.amazon.com/Why-Men-Hate-Going-Church/dp/078523215X/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1428068977&sr=1-1&keywords=why+men+hate+going+to+church

    Actually, as he notes (while referencing more scholarly sources) the feminization of European/North American christianity is a very old problem; the sex ratio imbalances go back a long time.

    For example, can one imagine an evangelical pastor today exhorting:

    “Whoever drinks beer, he is quick to sleep; whoever sleeps long, does not sin; whoever does not sin, enters Heaven! Thus, let us drink beer!”

    or,

    “Be a sinner and sin boldly, but believe and rejoice in Christ even more boldly.”

    or, and more precisely on point here:

    “Let the wife make her husband glad to come home and let him make her sorry to see him leave.”

    though I confess, this is my favorite:

    “He who loves not wine, women and song remains a fool his whole life long.”

    All quotes Martin Luther.

  41. Some of us don’t need Satan’s panties and still have tons of sex or seduce just fine. The over emphasis on lingerie gets me. Not all men care for it. So what I want to know is if you are having sex twice a day but just don’t like the seduce term are you somehow doing it wrong?

  42. Oh for sure. I totally agree with you on this. I used to approach sex/relationships by assuming that my boyfriend wanted me to treat him like he treated me. Things were definitely a competition. After I made the switch to getting my “seductive girl game” on, our relationship and sex life has become better than I could have ever imagined! We’re both more satisfied, and we both feel more confident in our role as men and women. Excellent post, Dragonfly 🙂

  43. I think your personal sexual habits should best be unexamined by other people, and certainly not me.

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